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May 15, 2007

Dispatches From When The Country Went Crazy: Kill 'em All Edition

While writing this post yesterday, I came across this gem from Paul Berman, writing in a January 2004 Slate forum reconsidering the Iraq War.  "[The] largest of facts," he wrote, "is the rise of a certain kind of political movement—movements animated by paranoid hatreds, by apocalyptic fantasies, and by the fanatical desire to kill people en masse. These have been the big totalitarian movements, Nazism, Fascism, Stalinism, and a few others—movements whose greatest goal was to destroy liberal civilization...The totalitarian visions live on. Only, instead of being called fascism or some other name from the past, the visions of the present are called radical Islamism and Baathism and suchlike, with doctrines duly descended from their European progenitors—the totalitarianism of the modern Muslim world."

I forget the elegant disingenuousness with which the war was often sold.  Notice how Berman recasts a fight against Saddam Hussein as a war against a unified totalitarian ideology.  This despite the fact that the Baathism, under Saddam's Iraq, and radical Islamism, under Khomeini's Iran, had spent over a decade killing each other (with America arming not one, but both).  Notice how these movements are ripped of positive -- which is different than "good" -- goals and recast as a mindless attack on "liberal civilization."

But that's just the start of the crazy.  Remember, here, that Berman was the author of the hugely influential liberal hawk manifesto Terror and Liberalism, and a main character in George Packer's The Assassin's Gate.  He goes on to write: "Sept. 11 did not come from a single Bad Guy—it was a product of the larger totalitarian wave, and the only proper response was to comprehend the size and depth of that larger wave, and find ways to begin rolling it back, militarily and otherwise—mostly otherwise. To roll it back for our own sake, and everyone else's sake, Muslims' especially. Iraq, with its somewhat antique variation of the Muslim totalitarian idea, was merely a place to begin, after Afghanistan, with its more modern variation."

Iraq and Afghanistan were just places to begin!  We were supposed to take on every country with a whiff of autocracy and a useable set of prayer mats!  It's staggering stuff.

May 15, 2007 in Iraq | Permalink

Comments

These have been the big totalitarian movements, Nazism, Fascism, Stalinism, and a few others—movements whose greatest goal was to destroy liberal civilization...The totalitarian visions live on.

I assume he missed the irony here.

In WWII, and the Cold War, we slowly became, before each was over, the enemy we were fighting in some important ways.

I guess Berman just wanted to cut to the chase this time, and become what we were allegedly fighting in toto, from day one.

Posted by: Davis. X. Machina | May 15, 2007 12:39:59 PM

This was just the beginning? Then we'd better hurry up and finish. There's a lot of countries out there that need invadin'.

Posted by: Mike M. | May 15, 2007 1:07:07 PM

"...The totalitarian visions live on. Only, instead of being called fascism or some other name from the past, the visions of the present are called radical Islamism and...and suchlike"

...or perhaps, the Modern Republican Party, surely they are against liberal society, heck, they just finished turning a largely modern state into a theocratic 7th century state.

Poor Paul, like many Kool Aid drinkers, he can't see what's in front of his eyes.

Posted by: S Brennan | May 15, 2007 1:20:33 PM

"with doctrines duly descended from their European progenitors...?" What on earth does that mean? That Modern Islamist movements are descended from nazism, fascism, and/or communism? Doesn't that negate the other claim that they are atavistic anti-liberal movements because they are, in some sense, medeival and based on a pre-modern authoritarian religious system? But in any event put me down for a huge retching sound and a strong desire to kick paul berman in the gonads if I ever get a chance to meet him.

aimai

Posted by: aimai | May 15, 2007 1:38:53 PM

It seems to me that Berman was right in his placment of Radical Islam along with Stalinism and Fascism as being premised on the goal of the destruction of liberal society. These are essentially Gnostic ideologes in that they are premised on the rejection of the world as is, combined with the duty, desirability and necessity of bring about a change to that world.

I understand the desire to attack the credibility of someone who says Iraq is the place to start in this new war, as obviously Iran had done much much more in advancing radical Islam, yet in this post it comes off as though Ezra doesn't believe there is an actual radical islamic movement that we need to battle with military and other means (mostly other means). Am I reading this wrong? Are you merely arguing that Iraq wasn't part of this movement (I'd agree with that).

Posted by: bjs | May 15, 2007 1:50:38 PM

Thank you, Mr. Berman, for your wisdom in these dark times.

Asshole.

Posted by: Adam Stanhope | May 15, 2007 1:54:53 PM

they just finished turning a largely modern state into a theocratic 7th century state.

They didn't do Iraq much good, either.

Posted by: LittlePig | May 15, 2007 2:09:37 PM

bjs,
I don't quite see how you make the leap from Ezra showing how Berman built a rediculous image of ourselves and our ennemy to Ezra not taking Al Quada seriously.
In fact it is in his grandeoise construction of Islamic fascism versus America the universal overthrower of tyranny and teacher of Democracy, Berman has described the world falsly, and led people to think poorly on the matter and sometimes make bad decisions.

Baathism was many things not liberal, but it was very much an impotent and failed ideology incapable of posing any sort of existential menace to the United States or even Iraq and Syria's closest neighbours. It was an ideological non identity, a joke, a neo nationalist communism that hadn't quite collapse yet. For Breman to descibe it in ways that suited Americas military adventure of the hour was very shallow and frankly intellectually dangerous.

As for AlQuada, Sunni extremism and Wahabbi theology in general, what we truly know of these matters is dwarfed by the size of our ignorance. Simple prudence would have been the order of the day for any thinker or journalist bold enough to write the 'truth' on these matters. This writing is only really taking place now, in the face of our strategic failure vis a vis AlQuada.

The lesson here is that when it comes to grand statements about the world as it is, most American thinkers need to read twice and speak once rather than blather whatever neat o theory of the world they've imagine in the shower this morning.

Posted by: Northern Observer | May 15, 2007 2:24:08 PM

Notice how Berman recasts a fight against Saddam Hussein as a war against a unified totalitarian ideology. This despite the fact that the Baathism, under Saddam's Iraq, and radical Islamism, under Khomeini's Iran, had spent over a decade killing each other (with America arming not one, but both).

Not a big deal for your overall point, but the idea that "radical Islam" is united by a totalitarian goal (whether true or not) doesn't entail that it doesn't suffer from internal divisions as well.

That said, a lot of liberals participated in the post-September 11th paranoia.

Posted by: Sanpete | May 15, 2007 2:47:59 PM

Uh, sanpete, since "liberals" in your lexicon always means "utterly wrong" does that mean the "psot steptember 11th paranoia which the republican party drummed up to get us to go to war was really a bad idea or does it mean that the republican party and the post 9/11 paranoia were really a figment of the liberal imagination? Inquiring minds want to know.

And, it may have escaped your reading skills but Berman is a liberal hawk and no one on this thread or on the bloggosphere is denying that many a liberal fell into the trap of the post 9/11 hysteria. What we would argue, I think, is that when the country largely went mad after 9/11 the proportions were

Republican/right wing 100% nuts
Liberal/left 60 % nuts
Liberal/left 40% "proved fucking right about everything."

aimai

Posted by: aimai | May 15, 2007 3:09:04 PM

"But in any event put me down for a huge retching sound and a strong desire to kick paul berman in the gonads if I ever get a chance to meet him.

aimai

Posted by: aimai | May 15, 2007 1:38:53 PM"

aimai, That last line is a thing of beauty. Better than anything I've read in quite a while it so beautifully captures the sense of the exhausting need to continue to register your withering disgust and revulsion and still-burning intense frustration at such idiocy. And it does so with this perfect banal tone appropriate to the occasion because this exhausting need still occurs so frequently that registering your objection now feels very much like giving a colleague a lunch take-out order at a never ending office meeting. Everyone knows the boss is an idiot, the initiative we're discussing is a hopeless failure and nothing we say will make much of a difference to the peope who actually make the decisions around here, but put me down for the chicken-salad and a diet pepsi. Thanks for a much needed laugh.

Posted by: Condor | May 15, 2007 3:53:23 PM

And, it may have escaped your reading skills but Berman is a liberal hawk and no one on this thread or on the bloggosphere is denying that many a liberal fell into the trap of the post 9/11 hysteria.

Aimai, I can't figure out your first paragraph at all, but on this point, you're just agreeing with what I said. So, yes, there seems to be a reading problem here, and I'll leave it to you to figure out whose it is.

I don't think 40% of liberals were right about everything. For example, I don't think 40% of liberals were right about WMD. (I personally thought there probably were some WMD, but none of any great danger to us.) I'd guess 40% of liberals were right that we shouldn't invade Iraq, which was the group I was in.

Posted by: Sanpete | May 15, 2007 4:55:07 PM

Iraq aside. Berman's exaggerating. Iraq aside, already.

1)The free flow of ME oil is an existential strategic concern of the the U.S., whether or not or how much the US becomes oil independent.

2) With Peak Oil, Global Warming, and increasing urbanization, I do see the ME over the next fifty years as becoming a complete basket case, a total disaster with significant outreach to the West. Starving desperate hopeless people without a Marxist ideology will likely turn to religious fanatacism and violence. Fuck China, we need to bring Egypt and Syria to developing status, rather than devolving, which is the current condition, and we need to do it now. Right now.
Iraqis and Iranians will look at the pleasure palaces of Dubai and want to kill somebody. Anybody. I sympathize with them.

3) I am hearing nothing from the anti-war crowd, nothing, that makes me optimistic or hopeful. Nothin. Withdraw to solar-powered Fortress America and let em all kill each other or just starve in Saudi prisons? Wait until the oilagarchs take the cash to Monaco and the billion left behind...do what?

4) There will be war and famine and pestilence. Don't worry much about Global Warming, by the end of this century the world population will be under 3 billion. Peak Oil is a killer. Maybe the liberal plan is containment, set up an Arab ghetto and then light a fire.

Posted by: bob mcmanus | May 15, 2007 5:51:50 PM

Currently reading Michael Ruppert's Crossing the Rubicon>/i> from 2004. Won't link, google him or check Wikipedia. Most of you won't like him, I but most of what he says.

Without oil for fertilizers and transportation etc, agricultural production drops 70%. That will likely happen in the next generation, and then the party will start.

I hope I am dead. The survivors will be the unlucky ones.

Posted by: bob mcmanus | May 15, 2007 6:02:27 PM

> It seems to me that Berman was right in his placment of Radical Islam along with Stalinism and Fascism as being premised on the goal of the destruction of liberal society. These are essentially Gnostic ideologes in that they are premised on the rejection of the world as is, combined with the duty, desirability and necessity of bring about a change to that world.

To paraphrase a use-worn quote: I do not think "Gnostic" means what you think it means.

Posted by: Dan | May 15, 2007 6:09:16 PM

Bob McManus' italics call for closure...

Posted by: Dan | May 15, 2007 6:10:41 PM

Yup.

4) Don't worry much about Global Warming, by the end of this century the world population will be under 3 billion. Peak Oil is a killer.

Think so? I doubt that decrease.

Posted by: TJ | May 15, 2007 7:03:32 PM

test

Posted by: alcatholic | May 15, 2007 7:18:39 PM

Sorry about the italics

"Think so? I doubt that decrease."

I do think so, tho I doubt that I can prove it. The idea is the globlization moved the oil econonmy global, so that a Peruvian (Chile?) subsistence farmer became part of the oranges industry. The industrialization enabled a large population increase. When expensive oil makes exported Chilean Oranges prohibitively expensive, there will no longer be the structures or knowledge available for that guy or all his kids to return to subsistence farming.

Now, for Americans, the conversion had to start yesterday. Those electric high-apeed mass-transit systems will need a whole lot of copper container-shipped from Chile, and that means the oil we are currently spending on oranges should be used for copper.
Which would mean ten-dollar oranges.

Michael Ruppert, being Ruppert, makes it very simple with quotes from Bush:

"The American way of life is not negotiable."

and from the movie Three Days of the Condor:

Turner: Boy, what is it with you people? You think not getting caught
in a lie is the same thing as telling the truth?

Higgins: No. It’s simple economics. Today it’s oil, right? In 10 or 15
years — food, plutonium. And maybe even sooner. Now what do you
think the people are gonna want us to do then?

Turner: Ask them.

Higgins: Not now — then. Ask them when they’re running out. Ask
them when there’s no heat in their homes and they’re cold. Ask them
when their engines stop. Ask them when people who’ve never known
hunger start going hungry. Do you want to know something? They
won’t want us to ask them. They’ll just want us to get it for them.

We Americans, and the other world elites, will kill any and all that stand in our way. Liberals have forgotten just how brutal & cruel the human race can be. How many Chinese died for the silk pajamas of British lounging ladies?

On topic, maybe Berman is just projecting. We won't let the Arabs keep the oil from us. We will kill them all.

Posted by: bob mcmanus | May 15, 2007 8:28:20 PM

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