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April 10, 2007
Throne-Kissers
I've spent a bit of time this morning puzzling over the meaning of a pretty opaque Jonah Goldberg post. It's my Tuesday timewaster! In it, he responds to Jon Cohn's smart article on the successes of the French health care system and my warning that the size of government isn't particularly determinative of economic growth by trenchantly asserting that, "[m]aybe, just maybe, France and Denmark can handle the systems they have because they have long traditions of sucking-up to the state and throne. Marty Lipset wrote stacks of books on how Canadians and Americans have different forms of government because the Royalist, throne-kissing, swine left America for Canada during the Revolutionary War and that's why they don't mind big government, switched to the metric system when ordered and will wait on line like good little subjects....maybe, just maybe, the reason America doesn't have a sprawling European welfare state is that America isn't Europe. And, unlike some of our liberal friends, Americans don't want to be Europeans."
My first thought is that that's a very serious, thoughtful, argument which has never been made in such detail or with such care. I smell a book contract! My second thought was: Huh? I'm not sure exactly what Goldberg thinks he's responding to, but it isn't anything Cohn or I wrote. For instance, apply his argument to Cohn's point on health care systems and it falls apart. America has multiple health care systems, some government-run, some privately administered. In every case, Americans -- who presumably aren't the "throne-kissing swine" of Goldberg's fevered imagination --report higher levels of satisfaction in the public programs. For instance, the elderly report 61 percent satisfaction with their health care system, which is government-run Medicare. The non-elderly, non-poor are about half as happy, with only 34 percent reporting themselves satisfied. Even the poor, who largely rely on Medicaid, free clinics, and the like are at 41 percent, higher than those of us in private care. Butwaitthere'smore!
The only truly socialized system in America is the Veteran's Health Administration. And surveys repeatedly and routinely find that they too are more satisfied with their care than those left in the private market. And anxious as I am to hear Jonah explain how our nation's veterans are just a bunch of toady throne-kissers, I'm not exactly holding my breath. So this one's back to you, Jonah: If America's culture renders us completely unsuitable for public health care systems, how come the vast numbers of Americans currently in public health systems seem so happy about it?
Also at Tapped.
April 10, 2007 in Health of Nations | Permalink
Comments
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Posted by: Wells. | Apr 10, 2007 12:07:28 PM
Aside from Goldberg's apparent ignorance of Europe's history and the reasons various monarchs are kept around at all, his comments are typical of the idea that the USA's economic system is some coherent whole, put in place in 1776 because it is the perfect expression of democracy and liberty. Apparently the American Revolution was fought because the East India Company was trying to import not only tea but also socialized healthcare.
Is there any other country where people argue that excluding capital gains from taxable income is a cultural expression?
Posted by: Stephen | Apr 10, 2007 12:09:46 PM
Dear God, that was one of the stupidest things I've read in some time. (The Goldberg post, I mean.)
Goldberg writes:
"Canadians and Americans have different forms of government because the Royalist, throne-kissing, swine left America for Canada during the Revolutionary War and that's why they don't mind big government."
And then, what, they passed on their throne-kissing, porcine genes to their descendants?
And what about the many, many (most?) Americans who are descended from post-Revolutionary war immigrants? I suppose that Jonah thinks that most of the people coming through Ellis Island were fleeing the excessive regulations of 19th-Century European welfare states?
And never mind the fact that most Americans want "big government" programs like Social Security, universal health care, etc.....
Posted by: Jason | Apr 10, 2007 12:20:32 PM
Has Jonah Goldberg never heard of the French Revolution? The one where they beheadded the King? Indeed, not satisfied with a mere revolution, the French went on to have two more. They haven't had a King of any kind since 1848. This is positively bizzare.
Posted by: Rich C | Apr 10, 2007 12:27:44 PM
With a single paragraph Jonah Goldberg sums himself up as a sophmoric bigot.
Posted by: W.B. Reeves | Apr 10, 2007 12:29:00 PM
Has Jonah Goldberg never heard of the French Revolution? The one where they beheadded the King?
Not to mention that the British set the precedent when they shortened Charles I. Oh and there's a little thing called the Magna Carta as well.
Posted by: W.B. Reeves | Apr 10, 2007 12:32:31 PM
Even given the very low expectations one brings to something written by Jonah Goldberg, that was pathetic.
Posted by: Anon | Apr 10, 2007 12:44:56 PM
All of you bringing up actual historical examples contradicting Jonah Goldberg are missing the point. Jonah is not paid to be correct, or even insightful. Note that one of Jonah's favorite phrasings is to precede an argument with "don't have the data to back this up, but..."
Jonah's primary job is to provide rhetorical arguments to his conservative audience-- to make them feel better about themselves, to give his audience something to say in their gathers with like-minded-friends, and to use on their liberal chlidren/friends/professors when they want to "get back" at them for perceived slights.
Posted by: Tyro | Apr 10, 2007 12:53:40 PM
Does this kid know ANYTHING about American immigration patterns?
I find it especially laughable to think the potato famine Irish immigrants were fleeing a welfare state to which so many of their brethren gleefully submitted their fealty. Yeah, that's EXACTLY why starving Irish came to America--they took offense at the too-generous welfare policies of the English!
Likewise, I'm rolling at the suggestion that millions of African Americans chose America over Europe and Africa because they didn't want to be mollycoddled by a state that invested in their welfare.
And let's not forget the Eastern Europeans who flooded in during the late 1800's and early 1900's, terrified that they would be forced to live under the generous welfare policies of nations like Poland and tsarist Russia.
God, what an idiot. Yeah, that's the defining historical difference between Europe and the US--generous welfare states.
Posted by: anonymous | Apr 10, 2007 1:27:49 PM
They haven't had a King of any kind since 1848.
They did, however, have an Emperor from 1852-1870.
Posted by: John | Apr 10, 2007 2:22:16 PM
If America's culture renders us completely unsuitable for public health care systems, how come the vast numbers of Americans currently in public health systems seem so happy about it?
"Completely"? Who said that? Do you deny there's a very important difference between American and European attitudes in regard to govermental programs? I think there obviously is.
Posted by: Sanpete | Apr 10, 2007 2:26:01 PM
Thanks for noticing the Second Empire John.
And I would suggest that the sort of Socialism America has embraced was the corporate sort. Industries and Power Groups are subsidized, not the lowly citizen...
Posted by: MR. Bill | Apr 10, 2007 2:36:29 PM
the sort of Socialism America has embraced was the corporate sort.
Though to be fair, weren't the Dutch and the English the pioneers in this regard?
Posted by: Jason | Apr 10, 2007 4:04:41 PM
Clearly my ancestors knew that someday Jonah Goldberg was going to happen, so they left.
Posted by: Descendant of Royalist, throne-kissing swine | Apr 10, 2007 8:53:44 PM
Klein predictably misses the real significance of his own figures. The real shocker here is that two-fifths of Medicare patients and three-fifths of Medicaid patients aren’t satisfied despite receiving medical treatment on someone else’s dime! How good can these systems be if so many patients receiving free care are still unhappy?
He also fails to notice that his private care satisfaction statistics conflict with one another. One source, which he quotes relating to the VA, says 73% of patients are satisfied. Another source, which he quotes in reference to Medicare, gives the figure at 34%. So, which is it?
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