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April 15, 2007

Speaking Up

By Ezra

What Digby said, of course. But I'm not so sure about this part: "Guys like Tim Russert rarely have to face black people on the air who will confront their billionaire boys club assumptions. I doubt that Russert sees himself as an intolerant, racist sexist frat boy jerk. And in most interactions he probably doesn't behave that way in the least....[But] looking Gwen Ifill, his colleague and respected female African American journalist, right in the eye, and having to answer to her concerns is something that could have made a difference long ago."

Russert and Ifill talk regularly. She's a frequent guest on his show. And I'd bet that she never before felt comfortable looking him in the eye and expressing her concerns. Because there's nothing worse -- particularly for a minority who's "made it" -- than becoming known as the "PC" police. Nothing worse than being too humorless to get the joke. Russert had to face Ifill's concerns not because he finally spoke to an African-American, female, journalist, but because the uproar surrounding Imus made it socially acceptable for Ifill to express her long-standing discomfort in a way that wouldn't get her ejected from the club. The Imus Controversy, in other words, comprised a set of "extraordinary circumstances," in which Ifill could make these comments without harming herself or discomfiting her friends. And even in this context, her actions were brave.

I was thinking about this a few weeks ago, when I was around a table -- a table that's usually all guys -- and some of the folks were talking about the reports that female soldiers are routinely raped in Iraq. And I forget the exact context now, but someone cracked a joke, and folks were trying to keep the conversation on the light, sardonic plane it generally floats across, when the one girl looked up and said, "Yeah guys, because you know what's real funny? Rape."

You could've heard a pin drop. She was right, of course, and folks felt ashamed for having been called on it. The topic changed, the night went on. But it was a genuinely brave thing for her to have done, given the power of the humorless feminist archetype. The upside, after all, is that the jokes stop. But the potential downside is resentment, a PC reputation, and eventually and possibly, exclusion.

The problem here is, as Ifill put it regarding Imus, "that people are [not] sorry that they say these things. They’re sorry that someone catches them." Had Ifill made these comments three weeks ago, the reaction of Russert and the others might not have been to accept the criticism, but to limit their contact with Ifill -- the better to keep someone from catching them in the future. And that, I think, is why Russert, and so many guys, never hear these critiques except in the rarest of instances. Folks aren't as sorry for what they said as anxious not to be caught again, so those who threaten them run the risk of being excluded from the group. And so, save in rare circumstances where their speaking up allows the group to exorcise a demon -- as Russert's invitation to Ifill and Robinson did today -- they remain silent.

Update: You can watch Ifill's performance here.

April 15, 2007 | Permalink

Comments

Here, here.

Posted by: W.B. Reeves | Apr 15, 2007 7:15:04 PM

Do you really think Digby was criticizing Gwen Ifill for not speaking sooner? I didn't read it that way.

Posted by: nolo | Apr 15, 2007 7:15:59 PM

No, I'm expanding on, not disagreeing with, Digby's comments.

Posted by: Ezra | Apr 15, 2007 7:27:13 PM

Is "What Digby said" the most commonly used phrase in the left blogosphere? No offence, Ezra, but why isn't Digby on the LAT payroll? She'd be a damn sight better than Jonah.

Posted by: Ginger Yellow | Apr 15, 2007 7:54:44 PM

Brave comments by Ifil, but it isn't clear that she will get a renewal notice from the club.

There won't be a general attack on the Beck's, Limpballs, O'Really's etc. because the counter-attack is not something the club members know to deal with. Case in point: Joe Klein on his new swampland blog.
Another mega-case in point: Attacks from Cheney, Bush, Rove & Co for anything said that isn't transcription of the BushCo party line.

Literally, they can't handle the truth.

Posted by: JimPortlandOR | Apr 15, 2007 8:13:40 PM

It was poorly written on my part. I meant to suggest that if this kind of dialog happened more often, in which these issues were raised and people like Ifill were asked their opinions to their faces, it might have come to a head earlier. I don't blame Ifill for not making a huge deal out of it either. It's a lot to ask, particularly since Clarence Page did make a big deal out of it back in 2000 and it didn't stop Russert and the rest of the boyz from appearing with Imus for seven more years. Why should she go out on a limb when it's been shown that it doesn't mean anything?

Perhaps there's something in the current political zeitgeist or it was just a straw that finally broke the camels back, but I sensed that every time one of these elite journalists who appear on Imus had to face a critical black colleague(and there were some who took Imus's side, or downplayed it) their confusion was written all over their faces. Russert et al were very well aware of Imus's propensity for racist and sexist humor and they knew many people found it offensive. It seems they just didn't think anyone they knew minded. Even within the club, there's another club.

Posted by: digby | Apr 15, 2007 8:29:56 PM

I forgot to add that Digby is a national treasure. She turns out longish posts day after day, all directed with precision to the heart of the matter at hand.

Posted by: JimPortlandOR | Apr 15, 2007 8:30:04 PM

It was poorly written on my part.

HA HA HA. No, seriously, teach me to write that badly, will you?

Posted by: Stephen | Apr 15, 2007 8:32:35 PM

I fail to see the importance of being upset by insults.

Posted by: dan | Apr 15, 2007 9:18:53 PM

I'd dispute the notion that Ifill is a "frequent" MTP guest - regular, maybe, but it looks like about 4 times a year or so from that search; Russert's panels are "diverse" but only up to a point (as is frequently brought up by conservatives), and I tend to think Ifill's not on his immediate go-to list, except, say, when the topic is race. That, it seems to me, is one problem the whole Imus imbroglio played up - watching MSNBC and FOX in particular during the past week, I was struck by how "find a black commenter" seemed to lead to all sorts of desperation: people clearly never called before were suddenly experts, and why? well, you couldn't have all white panels for this one, no sir... except of course, that's really how this was handled at first, and only as the story get worse did that seem hopeless. And I think that's why, even today, it seemed clear that many men of the Imus show's demographic still seemed a bit dense about what had happened and why. I don't think Ifill's been exactly silent - from her editorial to her previous work on Washington Week highlighting things like Trent Lott's now infamous comments at Strom Thurmond's birthday party, where she stands on this stuff is hardly a mystery. While I think it is helpful to get challenged on things from unexpected places, I often wonder to myself on some of these things why we need to explain that, you know, "nappy-headed hos" is a problem. If you wonder why people don't speak up, it may also be that some gobsmackingly obvious things shouldn't need underlining.

And by the way, I'm not sure I'd second Digby either - I think there's way to much parsing of "the right does this/the left does that" around these days. Insults are insults. They're not less insulting because somehow the left does them differently (and I don't really by that we do) - people say terrible things about George Bush and surely about Dick Cheney (none I suspect more insulting than the implications about his relationship with his kids, specifically Mary). The best thing to do, it seems to me is, well, try not to be insulting. Less parsing, less insults. Seems like a plan to me.

Posted by: weboy | Apr 15, 2007 9:24:24 PM

weboy -
There's a huge difference between insulting an individual on the basis of that individual's odious personal traits (such as George W. Bush's terminal idiocy, or Dick Cheney's lack of humanity) and throwing out a racist or sexist epithet at a group of people (such as a women's basketball team).

If you can't see the difference between these two things, I would direct you to this essay:

http://kfmonkey.blogspot.com/2007/04/i-sense-your-confusion-time.html

As usual, Rodgers says it far better than I ever could.

Posted by: NonyNony | Apr 15, 2007 10:20:45 PM

I'm sorry - I don't think it's okay to insult people, be it personal traits, or group portraits... both bother me. I don't think there's a "we do it in the good way" about this. That's my point. If we think it's wrong to insult people (and I certainly do), the best thing would be... try not to. Let's not call George Bush an idiot; let's not call Dick Cheney a lousy father. Let's start there. Let's not pretend one's okay and the other isn't. They're both not. After that, I think we're in a much better position to say, perhaps it's time not to be hurling insults at whole groups of people.

Posted by: weboy | Apr 15, 2007 11:09:50 PM

Ezra's female friend must really hate Get Your War On.

Posted by: digamma | Apr 16, 2007 2:19:05 AM

I fail to see the importance of being upset by insults.

dan- the problem is not with the insults themselves but in how they have become the public discourse, with how the so-called media elite who form a large part of Imus show listeners become inurred to them. They become acceptable, routine, mundane. Imus got caught out because thanks to the Youtube world, his so-called discourse was heard outside the narrow world view of his regular listeners. People who do not see it as mundane, who do not want it to be routine and definitely see it as unacceptable were introduced to the I-man and at who supports his tawdry show. The media followed his lead in accepting his slapdash first few apologies; the public didn't. He followed up with a new so-called apology- I did wrong but society is to blame and the media dutifully followed the path he laid out; the public looked at them like three-headed cows. The media had a choice, they could continue to accept Imus as a legimate object of defense or they could jettison him to the wolves.
The real question is 'will the media insiders who played Imus' game figure out where they went wrong or will they just find a new egregious mentor to go to?'

Posted by: Hawise | Apr 16, 2007 10:40:21 AM

weboy

I'm not a big fan of insults myself, but if you can't tell the difference between one that is inherently about someone's actions and one that is about irrelevant* biology....

Besides - how is calling Dick Cheney a lousy father an insult, full stop. ? It's certainly not flattering, but unlike "nappy-headed" or "ho" it is relevant to the issue. Do good fathers undermine their children's rights as Cheney has? If not, then why, as a nation, are we making some of the decisions currently being made?

*irrelevant as in "not part of the issue being discussed" not that race , gender, sexual orientation, etc. are inherently irrelevant.

Posted by: Mickle | Apr 16, 2007 1:54:15 PM

[digamma]Ezra's female friend must really hate Get Your War On.
Digamma, I suspect "Ezra's female friend" recognizes that when David Rees refers to rape, or beheadings, or other atrocities in his comic strip, he isn't making light of them. Quite the contrary, he's depicting characters desperate to make light of a horrifying situation, and usually failing. The emotion of GYWO is outrage.

As I read the story Ezra retells, the woman at the table wasn't saying "you're not allowed to make jokes that refer to rape." She was saying "you should know better than to think rape is funny." There's a difference.

(And since Ezra couldn't recall the exact joke, we don't really know precisely how the conversation was treating the subject of rape, so it's hard to compare.)

Posted by: Cris | Apr 16, 2007 4:42:02 PM

Mickle - Calling Dick Cheney a poor father to his own children is an insult, that seems rather obvious. It's certainly hurtful, and since we know only so much about the relationship between the Vice President and members of his family, it's speculative and probably untrue. But never mind. I'm not in favor of insults, period. Full stop. I don't think one needs to resort to insults, epithets or similar negative tactics to make a point in a debate. That's why I have issues with the way conservatives go about making points - it's not that they do some special, different sort of insults - it's that often they're just insulting. If we resort to that - for whatever reason, however we'd like to draw lines or distinctions - we're not better for it. I can make a point about the problems with Dick Cheney as a Vice President without calling him names or speculating about how he feels about his lesbian daughter. I bet others can too. Why not try?

Posted by: weboy | Apr 16, 2007 4:55:11 PM

I love the story about being around the table. I have always felt that allowing back-slapping jokes about women to slide through conversation is the same as laughing at a racist joke.

I have only been in a situation a few times where a racist joke was made and of course I don't laugh and make it clear I didn't think the joke was funny.

It doesn't do me much good as a woman - a fat woman - to say I would do the same thing as the person in your story because I think it would be rare indeed if somebody was brazen enough to make rape/fat/woman jokes in my presence - but I encourage my significant others and those who read my blog also not to engage in that sort of "boys will be boys" humor because of course, to me, that validates the behavior. In fact we had such a discussion on my blog within the past couple of days.

http://blog.allzah.com/?p=624#comments

Posted by: Heather | Apr 17, 2007 9:33:02 AM

I've had moments like that. It's not fun, and they do exclude you afterwards.

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