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March 13, 2007

Haha!

John Podhoretz dings me for lacking a sense of irony and notes that my Bar Mitzvah was a week ago. That's weird, my Bar Mitzvah was much longer--oh! John is calling me young! Oh man. That one almost slipped by me. But yeah, he's suggesting I'm not very old, right? At least, I think that's the joke. I'm beset by insecurity, though. To quote another victim of Podhoretz's razor sharp ripostes, "have I grasped the full subtlety of Podhoretz's rapier wit, with all its complexities and layers of symbolism?" Could there be anything I'm missing? Does he also think my mama is so fat, maybe?

As for the piece at hand, I don't think J-Pod was kidding in any way that changed the post's intent or meaning. But look, there's an easy way to make sure such misunderstandings don't happen again. If J-Pod wants us to interpret his posts as jokes, he could, in the future, make them funny.

March 13, 2007 | Permalink

Comments

Whattadork.

I mean, is it jpod's implication that "young people" don't get irony? Or is it just jpod's own flavor of irony you whippersnappers don't get? Or maybe, just maybe, his irony is about as sharp as the rest of his writing...

I think that's it.

Then again, when a large group of people can't perceive what a writer intended well, perhaps the writer screwed up?

jpod?

We're talking about you.

Posted by: ice weasel | Mar 13, 2007 10:53:06 AM

"If J-Pod wants us to interpret his posts as jokes, he could, in the future, make them funny."

Oh... SNAP!

Posted by: Chuck | Mar 13, 2007 11:22:23 AM

Oh come on, Ezra: What part of "worthless academic whiners" isn't clever and witty?

If there's one unbridgable gulf between libs and conservatives in this country, it's in the realm of humor. For conservatives, a straight-up insult (preferably employing well-known stereotypes) of a group you actually do despise is somehow hilarious. Me, I don't get it.

Posted by: Ryan | Mar 13, 2007 11:23:15 AM

Whether Podhorets is funny is not a serious question, but I've been laughing at him for years.

Posted by: J. J. Hunsucker | Mar 13, 2007 11:24:13 AM

Ezra,

Word to the wise: Don't even acknowledge John P. Normanson.

Norm and Midge stopped doing so about 35-40 years ago.

Posted by: Mark | Mar 13, 2007 11:46:00 AM

It is my experience that conservatives who accuse liberals of lacking a sense of humor tend to be projecting in the worst way. I can't wait for someone to say it to Stephn Colbert's face.

Posted by: Amanda Marcotte | Mar 13, 2007 12:11:06 PM

I think you should ding him back for the committing the popular misusage of the term "irony."

Posted by: Steve | Mar 13, 2007 12:19:00 PM

I think you should ding him back for the committing the popular misusage of the term "irony."

So, if Mr. Klein did so, would that count as irony?

Posted by: mds | Mar 13, 2007 12:21:49 PM

Ezra, he was kidding in exactly the way that made your original post about this wrong: he wasn't really endorsing Newsweek's actions. I agree it wasn't very funny; the cues could have been better. Nonetheless, I suspected immediately that he wasn't serious simply because it would be very strange to seriously endorse Newsweek's actions in the manner he used.

"Irony" is a broad term that sometimes means no more than saying one thing and meaning another. That is proper usage.

There is an irony here in the more narrow sense. In the post right before the one on Podhoretz you yourself were pretending that your views of someone (Obama) were made more positive merely by the fact that someone else you don't really agree with (Wieseltier) was attacking him: your own tongue-in-cheek politics of resentment. Funny how these things go. Your post was funnier; I'll grant you that.

Posted by: Sanpete | Mar 13, 2007 12:57:08 PM

Sanpete, there's nothing in Podhoretz' original post that would suggest he was kidding. He was caught saying something dumb and tried to back out of it.

Posted by: Neil the Ethical Werewolf | Mar 13, 2007 1:29:29 PM

Neil, there obviously was something that indicated he was kidding, or I and others wouldn't have immediately suspected it. Arguments of the form "if so-and-so hates x, there must be something good about it" are usually not to be taken at face value; they're usually intended humorously, as Ezra's own pretense of the politics of resentment was. In addition, it struck me as odd was that he would truly endorse what Newsweek did, which looks pretty stupid on its face, without the slightest defense of it, and couch his "praise" of the magazine in terms of his own disastrous relation with it.

But even if there were nothing to indicate he was kidding, your conclusion wouldn't follow. The proper conclusion would be that it's doubtful he was kidding, because (as you see it) he gave no cues and you think he's more likely dishonest than merely unfunny.

Posted by: Sanpete | Mar 13, 2007 1:55:35 PM

The proper conclusion would be that it's doubtful he was kidding, because (as you see it) he gave no cues and you think he's more likely dishonest than merely unfunny.

I concur. It is doubtful that Mr. Podhoretz was kidding, given his stylistic and philosophic track record, as well as the lack of cues in the original post. Now he is more likely being dishonest than merely covering for being unfunny.

Posted by: mds | Mar 13, 2007 2:00:59 PM

MDS, what you say is a little hard to follow. What do you concur with? Do you "concur" that there are no cues? What of the ones I listed? What stylistic and philosophical track record supports your conclusion? That he's usually very funny, that he usually agrees with Newsweek, that he often endorses the kind of thing Newsweek is accused of doing? And what is your conclusion? Being dishonest and merely covering for being unfunny would be the same thing in this context.

Of course, you're probably just being ironic, purposely mixing all this up to show ... something funny.

Posted by: Sanpete | Mar 13, 2007 2:23:02 PM

right vs. left humor: a primer.

right humor:
mr. dick cheney
"go f?!k yourself"

left humor:
mr. ex-lion tamer
"i cordially invite mr. allen to suck macaque."

Posted by: r@d@r | Mar 13, 2007 2:45:01 PM

Ha. A tamer of ex-lions. That is funny.

Posted by: Sanpete | Mar 13, 2007 2:50:32 PM

Sorry, but it's driving me nuts - it's US News, not Newsweek.

And also:

"if so-and-so hates x, there must be something good about it" are usually not to be taken at face value; they're usually intended humorously

In civilized society, yes. In the fever swamps of right-wing "discourse," however, it is a first principle.

Posted by: Jason | Mar 13, 2007 4:22:19 PM

Norm and Midge were kidding when they created John P. Normanson.

Unfortunately, the joke's on us - and Norm's and Midge's offshore bankers.

Posted by: Mark | Mar 13, 2007 4:38:10 PM

Thanks Jason--sorry about the mix-up.

In the fever swamps of right-wing "discourse," however, it is a first principle.

If you replace "right" with "left," you'll get a hearty "hear hear!" from the folks at The Corner. Funny how that works.

Posted by: Sanpete | Mar 13, 2007 5:42:03 PM

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Posted by: judy | Sep 27, 2007 4:16:50 AM

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