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March 05, 2007

Gomaa's Latest Fatwa Is A Winner

By Neil the Ethical Werewolf

The Grand Mufti of Egypt, Ali Gomaa, has come out with a fatwa permitting women to hide premarital sexual relations from their husbands, either with surgery to reconstruct their hymens or by just not admitting their sexual past.  While we in the West have progressed far enough that it makes sense to just make fun of anybody who cares enough about hymens enough to think hymen replacement surgery is a good idea, it's probably a good thing to make available in a society where the murder of women who have premarital sex is a real possibility. 

Gomaa has been pretty good on women's rights, having previously declared that women may become heads of state in modern Muslim nations.  His fatwa output hasn't been perfect -- a while back he was opposing the display of statues.  But if Egypt moves towards having less statues but more equality for women, you won't see me complaining. 

Back to the virginity stuff.  I particularly liked the commentary from this guy:

Shiekh Khaled El Gindy, an Al-Azhar scholar and member of the Higher Council of Islamic Studies told The Daily Star Egypt that he agrees with the new fatwa.

"Islam never differentiates between men and women, so it is not rational for us to think that God has placed a sign to indicate the virginity of women without having a similar sign to indicate the virginity of men," El Gindy said.

"Any man who is concerned about his prospective wife’s hymen should first provide a proof that he himself is virgin," he added...

In Upper Egypt honor crimes are still committed. If a woman loses her virginity out of wedlock, she is considered a big shame on everyone and deserves to die.

In response to such ideas, El Gindy told The Daily Star Egypt that, "Islam does not care for the feelings of ignorant people, just as the law does not protect the idiots."

Thanks to Ann and Eteraz for this.  (The Eteraz diarist may have accidentally misattributed some of Gindy's awesome quotes to Gomaa.)

March 5, 2007 | Permalink

Comments

I will keep this post when what passes today for contemporary 'feminists' whine and cry about some big conspiracy against women. It shows that most of the heavy lifting in this country has been done and that women, now on the Supreme Court, Presidential cabinet, boards of major corporations, enjoy the freedoms that the rest of the world does not. However, there will always be the occasional moron that didn't get the memo. Even John Edwards, arguably the most liberal of the mainstream candidates, understands this.

Posted by: Fred Jones | Mar 5, 2007 8:07:55 AM

Being against displays of statutes is, AFAIK, down-the-middle normative Islam. Islamic art tends to the abstract for just this reason. Images of man come a bit too close, for Islamic tastes, to images of the God than man reflects. And such images are forbidden even in the Ten Commandments.

Posted by: Joe S. | Mar 5, 2007 8:21:06 AM

Yeah, more rights for women is a pretty good tradeoff for less statues.

"Islam does not care for the feelings of ignorant people, just as the law does not protect the idiots."

There's just so many places to go with this. It's probably better that I leave it alone.

Posted by: Stephen | Mar 5, 2007 8:48:53 AM

"Fewer" statues. Egypt is moving toward having fewer statues.

Okay. I'll stop. I'm being a priss.

But it's "fewer", not "less".

I'm stopping.

It's not a big deal.

Stopping.

Now.

Posted by: Nate W. | Mar 5, 2007 9:30:07 AM

I agree with Stephen. That quote rocks.

Posted by: ajay | Mar 5, 2007 9:30:52 AM

Fred,

Although women make up 46% of the work force:

-Women's median weekly earnings in 2005: $585 for full-time wage and salary workers, $722 for men.
-Overall, women’s earnings as a percent of men’s were 81.0 percent.
-Women's median hourly earnings: $10.31 for those paid hourly rates, $12.16 for men.

-In 2004, for full-time year-round wage and salary workers, women's median annual earnings were $31,223; $40,798 for men.
-8 Fortune 500 companies have women as CEOs
-Women made up 16.4% of corporate officers as of 2005
-67 Fortune 500 companies have no women as corporate officers

If it is your point that women in the U.S. have different problems than women in other countries and that women have made great strides in gaining equality in the U.S., then I agree. If your point is that women in the U.S. should just stop whining because in Egypt, honor killings still occur, then not so much.

Posted by: jmack | Mar 5, 2007 10:41:45 AM

""Islam never differentiates between men and women..."

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.

Posted by: Ginger Yellow | Mar 5, 2007 11:25:33 AM

Ginger, the quote is clearly about "true" Islam; otherwise it makes no sense.

Posted by: Sanpete | Mar 5, 2007 12:11:00 PM

His fatwa output hasn't been perfect -- a while back he was opposing the display of statues.

Good. Statues piss me off. Standing there all still and shit.


Oh, and shorter Fred Jones:

"Hey, you bitches should be happy we're not legally allowed to rape you if you wear a short skirt."


Sorry for all the swearing and whatnot.

Posted by: Jason | Mar 5, 2007 12:29:04 PM

While we in the West have progressed far enough that it makes sense to just make fun of anybody who cares enough about hymens enough to think hymen replacement surgery is a good idea,

Yeah, we just have an ever-growing use of federal dollars for slut-shaming in our public schools, father-daughter purity balls with the father taking custody of his daughter's virginity locket, the "second virginity" movement, etc., etc. Ha ha, those foreigners and their benighted, religiously-motivated misogyny.

Posted by: mds | Mar 5, 2007 12:29:47 PM

"Ginger, the quote is clearly about "true" Islam; otherwise it makes no sense."

So you're saying El Gindy is a Scotsman?

Posted by: Ginger Yellow | Mar 5, 2007 1:06:28 PM

The funny thing about this is that as I was talking to a ob-gyn we got onto the topic of how back in the sixties and seventies people would bring in girls to check if they were virgins and pay the ob-gyn to check. She said that there really isn't any way of telling whether a girl is a virgin or not. You can generally tell if she's had a child but not if she's had sex. She even talked about a women who came in giving birth who still had her hymen. It varies so much in individual women that the hymen is either just a slight ring of tissue or it fully covers the opening.

Posted by: Marshall | Mar 5, 2007 1:08:08 PM

So you're saying El Gindy is a Scotsman?

Um, El Gindy is an Islamic scholar talking about true Islam, as opposed to the distortions often presented and practiced as Islam.

Posted by: Sanpete | Mar 5, 2007 1:21:48 PM

Ginger, the quote is clearly about "true" Islam; otherwise it makes no sense.

Gee, or perhaps there's a difference between Islam as a theology and Muslims, and their practices?

Nah - that wouldn't give us enough scope to bash Ay-rabs.

Posted by: Phoenician in a time of Romans | Mar 5, 2007 1:28:11 PM

I believe our website, Eteraz.Org, was the first to pick up on this news out of Egypt. After our article hit it big on Fark and Reddit everyone else picked up on it.

This means that the goal of Eteraz.org; a site dedicated to cataloging reform in the Muslim world is being fulfilled.

I encourage all of you to stop by from time to time. The liberal blogosphere lacks any effective coverage of reformist happenings in the Muslim world. Juan Cole only covers the political arena.

By the way, we're soon joining the liberal blogads network and work closely with Streetprophets.

This is from the About page of our website.

About Eteraz: States of Islam

Protest in Farsi and Arabic; in Urdu, Eteraz means heartfelt disagreement.

Eteraz is an online forum whose goal is to mobilize people of conscience throughout the world to identify, discuss, and take action on political and religious issues involving Islam and the Muslim world. Eteraz seeks a humanist vision of Islam for the future and looks to illuminate the wisdom and spirituality that made Islam a great religion historically by creating community, promoting informed opinions and more than anything else, moving its members to real world action.

Most, if not all topics touching on the religion and politics of Islam are appropriate at Eteraz. This forum represents people of widely diverging (and even conflicting) theologies. However, the soul of Eteraz is, and always has been, a) the simple idea that every human, man or woman, believer or atheist, wealthy or poor, has the same intrinsic worth, and can only be judged on the basis of his actions; and b) that it takes more than emails, and more than flowery articles, to stand up for the intrinsic worth of individuals.

Posted by: ali eteraz | Mar 5, 2007 8:15:37 PM

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Posted by: judy | Sep 27, 2007 11:55:48 PM

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