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February 12, 2007
What Would The Man In Black Say?
This is a great point by Rob:
It suggests to me that the public at large has simply concluded that a) rape is an integral part of prison life, such that a five year prison sentence automatically includes five years of rape, and b) that anyone who goes to prison is irredeemably besmirched, and thus deserving of constant rape.
To take this a bit farther, it's interesting to compare modern conceptions of prison (sadly or no, I've never seen Prison Break) with the work of Johnny Cash or Merle Haggard. For Haggard or Cash, that a poor white family would have to deal with the prison system in some fashion was simply a fact of life, even if Cash himself only spent one night behind bars. Moreover, neither Cash nor Haggard dodged the question of guilt; even if the protagonists of their songs weren't going away for life, they were usually guilty of something. At some point (probably as the War on Drugs saw a steady increase in the incarceration percentages of young black men) the idea that white people would have to deal with prison became alien. Is there music or other art today that deals with the possibility that guilty white folks might spend time in prison, and thus that prison should be made at least survivable?
According to the Justice Department, "[in] 2005 there were 3,145 black male sentenced prison inmates per 100,000 black males in the United States, compared to 1,244 Hispanic male inmates per 100,000 Hispanic males and 471 white male inmates per 100,000 white males." This is important. The relative infrequency with which white Americans enter prison, particularly for extended periods of time, surely effects the political urgency of prison reform. Indeed, it's likely the reason overall legislation pushes in the other direction -- towards overcrowding and longer sentences and less rehabilitation. The whole conversation reminds me of Stoller's important post on the political conversation within the African-American community, back when I was more of an activist, I did some work with ethnic activism groups, and prison reform, sentencing guidelines, the drug war, and general criminal justice issues were a huge focus in that community. It strikes me now how rarely such issues are mentioned in Washington.
February 12, 2007 | Permalink
Comments
Maybe this is something you can try to pin candidates down on when you interview them or their staffs. I don't think it's on their radar. It's something I would hope Obama has had some developed thoughts on, given his background of community activism.
Posted by: Sanpete | Feb 12, 2007 3:42:43 PM
Has anyone considered racial segregation in order to resolve many of our prison problems? It seems, in what little I've read on the subject, that many problems stem from racial motivations. Are we too p.c. even for our prison system?
Posted by: Macbrvs94 | Feb 12, 2007 3:46:10 PM
The relative infrequency with which white Americans enter prison, particularly for extended periods of time, surely effects the political urgency of prison reform. Indeed, it's likely the reason overall legislation pushes in the other direction...
Ya know, I like the posts bringing this issue to the forefront, but the statement above, blaming everything on a race issue is just crap. It' speculation at best and you present it as fact. Lead us through the thought process where you conclude it's all about race and make your case.
Posted by: Fred Jones | Feb 12, 2007 3:48:39 PM
I have to echo Sanpete here [ugh... ;-)] This is something it would be incredibly valuable to question Democratic candidates about. All of the issues you mention are a deep scar on society. I doubt we'll get a "game changer" on the War on Drugs, but someone needs to raise the "prison industry" problem. Police are gradually being militarised, DHS funds are being used to give more and more departments SWAT gear to play with and as your articles on prison rape note, that end of the system is a mess too. This is the kind of cancer that eats society from the inside out. Worse for all of us, although only progressives seem to care, that cancer is targeted mainly at the non-white population. It's really a stain on society...
Of course, saying all that. It's politically radioactive. When they say "Jesse Jackson was extreme, but Obama is mainstream" what they mean is that Jackson cared about this kind of issue, whilst Obama can be trusted to "tip a wink to the white folks" and skip right by this issue. Or that's the implication. Maybe he's better than that, but to find out, someone has to ask him... and Edwards and Clinton. Richardson too...
Posted by: Meh | Feb 12, 2007 4:16:19 PM
Is there music or other art today that deals with the possibility that guilty white folks might spend time in prison, and thus that prison should be made at least survivable?
Not as much as there used to be. I'd argue that watered-down versions of this idiom still survive in certain aspects of country music -- mostly in the remnants of outlaw country. These days, though, I'd have to say that you hear a lot more about prison in rap and hip-hop than, say, in more white-identified in-your-face genres. Take punk, for instance. Though both genres have always had a "f**k the system and your middle-class sensibilities" thing going on, even the punks I knew in the '80s didn't really perform much stuff about actually having to go to prison (though I note with a certain guilty nostalgia the glee with which they sang about doing things that might possibly get you arrested).*
*British punk was always a little more realistic about this sort of thing, but that's another matter.
Posted by: nolo | Feb 12, 2007 4:22:41 PM
Has anyone considered racial segregation in order to resolve many of our prison problems? It seems, in what little I've read on the subject, that many problems stem from racial motivations. Are we too p.c. even for our prison system?
California had a segregated system that the U.S. Supreme Court held was unconstitutional in 2005. I'm not sure that prison rape is a race violence issue, though. That's not to say that racially-based gang activity isn't a problem of its own -- it's just to say that getting rid of race-based gang activity will not get rid of prison rape.
By saying that prison rape is a problem separate from racial issues in prison, though, I'm not saying that there isn't a race-influenced component to our willingness as a society to deal with prison rape. But that's certainly something you can't solve by segregating prisoners by race.
Posted by: nolo | Feb 12, 2007 4:32:22 PM
I think there's another aspect this, and it's also part of the Foley Scandal and the kidnapping of Shawn Hornbeck - a greater discomfort in confronting the seamy aspects of male on male rape. I've likened it in conversation (and in my blog) to the notion that "men are the new women" and the discussion of male rape now often strikes me as the discussion of female rape 20, 30 years ago - he was asking for it, he probably has some latent gay sex desire, what was he wearing, was he cute/pretty, did he lead his rapist on... all of these things that have nothing, ultimately, to do with what rape is about. It underlines that for all the brave talk - especially among progressive men - that attitudes and outlooks on homosexuality have changed, in some ways all that's changed is the referencing. Men still jumble up questions about sex and love and power and that reality, combined with at least some, or possibly a great deal of revulsion/shame around gayness makes sorting out male rape highly problematic. So yes, I think America has hardened around the way it thinks about prisoners, but I think all those "you so pretty, you don't want up in jail" comments underscore a really brutal attitude about male rape, which is to say, sugar, if you get raped it's your own damn fault. And that's not going to change until someone manages to refocus the discussion on male rape from something about sex to something about power.
Posted by: weboy | Feb 12, 2007 4:35:55 PM
Just a brief continuance and apology - I got here late today and hadn't seen your other two posts, and a number of good comments along the lines, I see, of what I've said here. I do also struggle with what we do to reduce rapes in prison, because while I think taking male rape (as well as things like male sexual harassment) more seriously will help, the problem is so rampant and so poorly controlled that I think meaningful change is a long ways off. And as you've shown today, Ezra, what's happening is nothing short of horrific, and it's tolerated, and it's accepted, and it's laughed about and it's ignored. Part of me thinks, though, that with things as far gone as they are, that it may turn out that prison reform is a stealth issue that will no longer be just about Republican law and order types getting points for saying they'll treat prisoners meaner than anyone else. We are not cruel people in this country, I firmly believe that. And what's happening in prisons now is just awful, and we really should be ashamed. We're better than this.
Posted by: weboy | Feb 12, 2007 4:51:22 PM
I didn't mean to imply that segregation would end prison rape, but if segregation would eliminate all kinds of other problems it stands to reason that rape might be reduced as well. I wonder if there are stats for California prison rape pre and post constitutional ruling? That'd be interesting.
By the way, which article of the the Constitution addresses prison conditions and how to integrate the multi-ethnic population? Our supreme court is silly.
Posted by: Macbrvs94 | Feb 12, 2007 4:58:11 PM
Weboy, is there something being said here that leads you to see the gay sex issue as relevant, or are you thinking of those "other people"?
You seem to be saying, in so many words, that rape isn't about sex, which has been mentioned by a couple others in these threads and is a motto that seems very wrong to me. Is that your meaning? If so, I wonder what it's really supposed to mean.
Posted by: Sanpete | Feb 12, 2007 4:59:25 PM
By the way, which article of the the Constitution addresses prison conditions and how to integrate the multi-ethnic population? Our supreme court is silly.
I do believe the Fourteenth Amendment had something to do with it. You can read the opinion for yourself here. For what it's worth, the Supremes didn't say that racial classifications can never play a role in prison managment -- they just said that you'd better use them pretty damned sparingly.
Posted by: nolo | Feb 12, 2007 5:11:25 PM
This has been one of my griping points for a long time. Neither Republicans or Democrats want to appear "soft" on crime, so they stay away from this issue. The problem with overcrowding in prisons is becoming a major financial and social burden for states and families. There is no reason a nation as rich as ours should have both the highest overall amount of people in prison and the highest rate. This needs to be made an issue. Hopefully if it is made one it will get more blacks on board with the Democrats (I know they are the Democratic of any racial voting blocks, but maybe we can get more of them to the polls) without alienating too many white populist type Democrats.
Posted by: Daniel Klein | Feb 12, 2007 5:14:01 PM
The supreme court struck down an attempt by CA to segregate prisons for the first N days to reduce prison rape.
WRT the race issue, what's the figure about the % of African-American men who do time? Isn't it close to 50%? Doesn't that mean that dealing with the CJ system for African-American men is more common than any other government service except paying taxes?
Posted by: Nicholas Beaudrot | Feb 12, 2007 5:14:16 PM
Saddam sentences someone to be raped: deposed, hanged.
America sentences someone to be raped: Jay Leno giggles about it.
Posted by: scarshapedstar | Feb 12, 2007 5:16:35 PM
You seem to be saying, in so many words, that rape isn't about sex, which has been mentioned by a couple others in these threads and is a motto that seems very wrong to me. Is that your meaning? If so, I wonder what it's really supposed to mean.
The notion that rape isn't really about sex is not a new one. Sex may be the medium, but rape often is about power, anger or other issues. (go here for more detail)
Posted by: nolo | Feb 12, 2007 5:19:13 PM
i just want to bump a paper on the Finnish prison system, which i feel is germane to the discussion, up to this thread instead of letting it languish in a previous prison-rape thread.
http://www.optula.om.fi/uploads/anfhavc10(1).pdf
the short version is that by allowing greater nuance in the interpretation of the societal role of the prison system, they have quartered their prison population since the 1950s, and have quite low recidivism rates as well.
Posted by: rigel | Feb 12, 2007 5:20:55 PM
Sanpete has the best point here, I think. Question politicians, get them to commit to some sort of reform at least rhetorically, then build pressure for them to actually deliver on their commitments.
As a black man/community activist/informed person, Obama better have developed some thoughts on this! As I mentioned in the other thread, it was quite striking how he failed to talk about these issues in his recent book. Prison reform, drugs, and criminal justice are hugely important issues in the black community.
Ya know, I like the posts bringing this issue to the forefront, but the statement above, blaming everything on a race issue is just crap. It' speculation at best and you present it as fact. Lead us through the thought process where you conclude it's all about race and make your case.
I don't think it's really speculation. And Ezra clearly didn't "blame everything" on race. It's just one factor among several that's contributing to nonaction on these issues by politicians. Personally, I would generalize the problem to the ghettoed underclass, which has been for all intents and purposes written off by the larger society. They're the ones in the cycle of poverty/broken families/prison/drugs/crime, and most affected by all of those things.
It just so happens, of course, that most of the ghettoed underclass is nonwhite.
Posted by: Korha | Feb 12, 2007 5:23:40 PM
The number for whites per 100k would be much higher if we considered only Republican political fixers and Congressmen....
Posted by: James | Feb 12, 2007 5:23:44 PM
Thanks, nolo. I understand those points, which would be summed up by something like "rape isn't only about sex, but often more about power and rage," but many people don't say it that way, and I've heard some say that it isn't about sex at all. If anyone really believes that, I'd be interested in their explanation.
Posted by: Sanpete | Feb 12, 2007 5:49:40 PM
Then there's always William Jefferson who seems to be getting a pass even though the evidence against him is overwhelming.
Posted by: Fred Jones | Feb 12, 2007 5:54:36 PM
Well, I read the 14th amendment again, and it still doesn't say anything about prison conditions. I understand that the supreme court has stretched it out to mean all kinds of things that it doesn't say. Therefore, I stand by my statement: our supreme court is silly.
Why was California segregating the prison population in the first place? Probably because it worked. It probably saved lives and made prison life more bearable. Anyways, it's part of a different argument really.
I do wish a politician, any politician, would make this an issue. I think it's right for us to be ashamed of our country on this issue.
Posted by: Macbrvs94 | Feb 12, 2007 6:03:42 PM
I think the people who are saying that rape isn't about sex are trying to stress the fact that rape is not about obtaining sexual gratification. It is instead about dominating and humiliating the victim in a way that is dominating and humiliating at least in part because the acts involve violations of a sexual nature. What happened to Abner Louima, for instance, rape. Was it about sex, though? You tell me.
Posted by: nolo | Feb 12, 2007 6:05:00 PM
Why was California segregating the prison population in the first place? Probably because it worked. It probably saved lives and made prison life more bearable. Anyways, it's part of a different argument really.
It is part of a different argument, at least in some ways. But take solace in the fact that the Supremes said that California can use racial segregation as a tool in controlling prison populations if it can demonstrate that racial segregation is (a) justified by a compelling state interest; (b) is narrowly tailored to meet that interest; and (c) that the interest cannot be met through less restrictive means. California has yet to try to prove that, though.
Posted by: nolo | Feb 12, 2007 6:09:28 PM
Nolo, some rape isn't about sex. It's a mistake to generalize from that to "rape isn't about sex" when much of it clearly is. Or so it seems to me. I'm off the main point here. Just wanted to know what people mean.
Macbrvs94, it's silly to look for all the topics affected by a consitutional provision in the provosion itself. You see anything about TV in the First Amendment?
Posted by: Sanpete | Feb 12, 2007 6:15:34 PM
Well, I read the 14th amendment again, and it still doesn't say anything about prison conditions.
It does say something about equal protection. Equal protection precludes racial segregation, as determined by Brown v. Board of Education.
Posted by: keshmeshi | Feb 12, 2007 6:36:45 PM
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