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November 22, 2006
The Center
Noting the unholy union of Marshall Wittman and Joe Lieberman, Matt writes:
Mark Schmitt notes the possibility of a McCain/Lieberman combo third party run peddling the line "We were each rejected by the ideological extremists in our parties, therefore we represent the true forgotten center of American politics." And, as Mark says, they'll be in the "center" if by "center" you mean "on the far, far right on national security issues."
This concept of "the center" in American politics is very weird. Which center? The one where the majority or plurality of Americans are? The one where elites are? The one where politicians judged "centrist" are? They're all different.
Take Iraq. 63% of Americans now "oppose" the war. 60% want to start withdrawal. So the center is pretty far left. It's Russ Feingold, or John Kerry, or Howard Dean. But the elite center is in a whole different spot. They regret the poor trajectory of the war, but assume, like good technocrats, that a sufficiently clever shift of strategy can salvage the conflict. Most of them don't know what this shift should be. A fair number think we need to chop the country into three, ethnically discrete states. They think that, so far as I can tell, because it sounds like the sort of thing tough-minded, realistic foreign policy thinkers would think, and it allows America to actually "do" something.
But the politicians who are in "the center" have a different view entirely. Lieberman and McCain are virtually the only voices in American life who think we need to add troops to the conflict. Why they think this isn't clear. Robert Reich believes, based on a green room conversation with McCain, that "McCain knows Iraq is out of our hands – it’s disintegrating into civil war, and by 2008 will be a bloodbath. He also knows American troops will be withdrawn. The most important political fact he knows is he has to keep a big distance between himself and Bush in order to avoid being tainted by this horrifying failure." So he's calling for more troops assuming it won't happen, but understanding that, when it doesn't and we lose, he'll have been on record advocating a different strategy.
In any case, where's the center here? Is it the centrist politicians, with their extremely far right, extremely uncommon stratagem? Is it the media elite, with their tri-state solution? Is it the American public, with their clamor for withdrawal?
November 22, 2006 | Permalink
Comments
I would love to see a McCain/Lieberman third-party candidacy. Unfortunately, while Lieberman is probably stupid enough to do it, McCain isn't.
Unless McCain loses the 2008 GOP nomination, and he decides to pull a Lieberman with Lieberman. That would be delicious.
Posted by: Stephen | Nov 22, 2006 6:32:44 PM
In 2008, I'd be quite happy to have the anti-war candidate running against two pro-war candidates.
Posted by: Neil the Ethical Werewolf | Nov 22, 2006 7:24:25 PM
There's too many types, and they all mean a lot of different things. There's the "Centrism" of believing a lot of things, some leftish, some rightish, and that all equals out in the center somewhere. There is the centrism that believes in straddling the middle between the two sides.
What is the center? Some belive it's the point on the political spectrum where the two sides meet. There is also the "elite" center and the "populist" center. these two often have opposing views, especially in regards to Trade & Immigration, but sometimes issues like abortion too.
Posted by: DRR | Nov 22, 2006 7:50:08 PM
trying to define the center reminds me of the old . lawyer's joke. when you ask an engineer what's 2 +2 , he or she will say 4, and if you ask a lawyer, he or she will say whatever you want it to be. I get the feeling that the centrist answer is the same as the lawyers
Posted by: akaison | Nov 22, 2006 8:10:25 PM
"Which center? The one where the majority or plurality of Americans are? The one where elites are?"
Lieberman and McCain represent the "elite center". Their views on Iraq and national security is identical to that of the Washington Post editorial page and most of their op-ed columnists.
Posted by: Nan | Nov 22, 2006 8:49:59 PM
They regret the poor trajectory of the war, but assume, like good technocrats, that a sufficiently clever shift of strategy can salvage the conflict. Most of them don't know what this shift should be. A fair number think we need to chop the country into three, ethnically discrete states. They think that, so far as I can tell, because it sounds like the sort of thing tough-minded, realistic foreign policy thinkers would think, and it allows America to actually "do" something.
It's actually kind of interesting that these elite technocrats can't seem to come up with a clever shift in strategy even though their elite positions are apparently based in their ability to do just that, but are instead completely hamstrung by their obsession with appearing tough. So, they are able to neither apply their supposed expertise to the problem nor admit their more obvious and deep-seated inadequacies... IOW, they fail with both approaches.
Posted by: latts | Nov 22, 2006 9:58:35 PM
Take Iraq. 63% of Americans now "oppose" the war. 60% want to start withdrawal. So the center is pretty far left. It's Russ Feingold, or John Kerry, or Howard Dean.
Howard Dean isn't in the same spot as Kerry and Feingold on this. His position during the campaign and up til now is part of the "I was against going in, but now we're there, and we can't leave just yet" camp.
Posted by: Chris | Nov 22, 2006 11:48:07 PM
Centrists are so called because they agree with one party on some issues and with the other on other issues.
Thus, Joe Lieberman (pre-2006):
Q1. Do you refer to yourself as "a Democrat"?
A. Yes.
(comment: this is a Democratic position.)
Q2. Do you support George Bush unthinkingly in every foreign policy issue?
A. Yes.
(comment: this is a Republican position.)
With one position from each side, Joe is a centrist.
Now, take John McCain:
Q1. Are you a mad crazy conservative in every way?
A. Yes.
(Republican)
Q2. Do you think someone else should be president other than George Bush?
A. Yes. (aside: me!)
(Democrat).
Again, it's one-all.
Posted by: ajay | Nov 23, 2006 5:33:57 AM
what you are going to see in 08 is the Republican Canidate be some absolutely bat-poo crazy dude. (I think it will be Brownbeck/Judge Ray Moore.) Then a Bullshit Moose Party.
The money and elites Go to the Bullshit Moose, the active base goes to the Republican Party, and Hillary takes the White House.
Posted by: profbacon | Nov 23, 2006 9:16:59 AM
I see the centrists (not the puppies like Lieberman) but people who are more moderate as the anchors.
I don't see all of them as bad. Just some but, then there are bad in all areas.
The moderates have a purpose. If everyone was on the same page or father to the left (or right) there is no one pulling them back from going too far. The republicans overthrew thier moderates and look what's happened to them. There was no balance to keep them from going over the edge.
I do think there are good and honest moderates and they can be the voice of reason when things get a bit extreem.
Posted by: vwcat | Nov 23, 2006 10:45:01 PM
In 2008, I'd be quite happy to have the anti-war candidate running against two pro-war candidates.
Didn't you said in the other thread that you wanted Edwards?
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I think the real center that politicians should reference and worry about is the American public. 60% of Americans think we should withdraw from Iraq. I think this statistic is much more important than a statistic of the media elite or the centrist politicians.
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