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November 03, 2006
Support The Imaginary Troops
I've been struggling to articulate what most unnerves me about the Kerry flap for a couple of days, trying to figure out how to say this without it being ripped out of context mere microseconds after posting. Not easy. But let's start with the education issue: There are a lot of different estimates as to the education level of the troops in Iraq. The best conclusion you can draw is that they're relatively educated (and rarely uneducated), working-to-middle class, and heavily Southern and Southwestern. In other words, they're not sons of privilege, but nor are they refuges from the streets. It's the American Dream with guns.
But I loathe the tendency -- by politicians and pundits, liberals and conservatives -- to dreamily speak of the great sacrifice, magnificent courage, inspiring intellect, and extraordinary characters of our troops. It's bullshit. And it's bullshit designed to make us feel better, so we don't have to face what we've done to these children, and don't have to imagine the toll a warzone takes on real humans, rather than imagined supermen.
They're not doing a magnificent job. They're not approaching each day with stoic courage and endless optimism. They're doing their best. These are kids. I knew them in high school. They entered the military because they sought discipline, or loans, or redemption, or very occasionally, honor. They were not a wiser breed, or a braver strain -- they were just kids, they made a decision that seemed right at the time, and now they're doing their damndest to survive. It comforts us to speak of them all as Rhode Scholars, automatons who run on courage and faith and perform with grace and cheer. It comforts us to speak of them like that because it allows us to deny the image of twentysomethings lying terrified in the desert, straining to make it through that day, and the next, and the one after it. By so lavishly honoring them, we transform our mental picture of who fights in this war, and we allow their imagined stoicism to ease our onrushing guilt.
I had a friend who ended up a biohazard unit during the early days of the invasion. He's an amazing person: gentle, empathic, wise, and courageous. He went to a top college and enlisted after 9/11. He's precisely the soldier we like to describe. But he spent his days terrified, waiting for calls back home, waiting for his tour to close. He performed his duties well and displayed enormous personal strength, but he was just a kid, and his expression of patriotism had landed him in hell. He made that choice, and he bore it well. But he bore it as we all would -- with fear, and imperfection, and frustration, and pain. It wasn't a magnificent experience. It wasn't a war novel. The difference between going to war and imagining it is that when you daydream about battle, it's hellishness takes on a sort of beauty, it allows men to emerge heroes and courage to reign. In our minds, it can be magnificent. For those fighting it, it isn't. Homelife takes on the glow of heaven.
That doesn't mean war is never necessary, or battles should never be fought. But society must reckon with their toll more realistically. We shouldn't deny the horrors of combat by overwriting the humanity of those conducting it. It doesn't support the troops to heap them in false praise and projection. It supports us, keeps us warm and safe in the invented knowledge that war is fought by warriors, not children. Which is why, in the end, it doesn't much matter if they're educated, or rich, or strong, or brave. Neither the kids I know who enlisted nor the (many more) who stayed behind were equipped for such a searing experience. And no Ivy degree would have prepared them for it. But those who went endured despite their unreadiness. And we who stayed behind do them a disservice, we dishonor the troops, if we pretend they were somehow prepared for this life, rather than thrust into it.
November 3, 2006 | Permalink
Comments
Some of us do/have done it just because it is fun.
The link migh not be at the best part of that thread.
Posted by: Guy Montag | Nov 3, 2006 9:44:59 AM
"to dreamily speak of the great sacrifice, magnificent courage, inspiring intellect, and extraordinary characters of our troops."
Can you think of another group in this country who, overall as a group, deserve more praise than the kids who joined the US military after 9/11?
"They entered the military because they sought discipline, or loans, or redemption, or very occasionally, honor."
Are you using "honor" in place of "patriotism"? If so you are wrong. Most young people who join in a time of war do not join for loans, or discipline. They want to go fight for their country.
The left has no clue about the mentality of those who love this country.
"It comforts us to speak of them like that because it allows us to deny the image of twentysomethings lying terrified in the desert, straining to make it through that day, and the next, and the one after it. By so lavishly honoring them, we transform our mental picture of who fights in this war, and we allow their imagined stoicism to ease our onrushing guilt."
Do you think "brave" people, like CMH winners for example, don't experience fear, or experience less fear?
That is why those people are so highly regarded in our society. Because they perform heroic acts in the face of paralyzing fear.
"It doesn't support the troops to heap them in false praise and projection."
False praise? These people are joining the military during a war!
Is this like the 'Fuck the Founding Fathers' thread? (We don't care if the founding fathers were against abortion, gay marriage and that the founding fathers didn't want God excluded from schools, they lived over 200 years ago!)
Liberals are just going to say what they really think? I guess Kerry and Seymour Hersh got the ball rolling.
Posted by: Captain Toke | Nov 3, 2006 9:52:38 AM
Ezra, you will piss people off if you pity them, especially highly capable soldiers.
Posted by: anon | Nov 3, 2006 10:02:27 AM
Ezra, I admire your attempts at trying to work through this. I offer feedback because I think you are smart and well spoken and a deep thinker and I think all of us gain from the dialogue.
I think what you're expressing is partly a function of youth - you are closer in age to these troops than I am (I like to think of that as a recent development, but it's been a while), and I think it's harder to separate yourself, somewhat, from who they are and what they do - there's a sense in which "the oneness of man" (which I think many liberals like to subscribe to) makes us feel we are all brothers, and somehow "there but for the grace of God (or such) go I" and that experience could as much be mine as it is theirs.
The fact remains, though, that they are there and you are not. They do something you chose not do, and are unlikely - ever - to choose to do. We can only speculate as to their reasoning, their judgement, and their choices. But they have chosen to do something very dangerous, to serve their country in a way you and I do not, and that does deserve deference and respect.
I think much of what you have here is hairsplitting - an argument like "let's call them brave, but not like conservatives call them brave; let's call it patriotic, but in a different sense of patriotism." And I don't want to "rip you to shreds", but I think the answer is simpler. We should just call it brave, and we should just call it patriotic, and we should be done with it. Conservatives can take what they want it to mean, and we can take what we want it to mean.
Since 9/11 I have had to cope with the way some people romanticize the firefighters and policemen and other first responders as somehow braver and more worthy of being called heroes than others on that day. To me, all of the people who lost their lives are the same, and I grieve for them all. But when I see a cop or a fireman these days, I have to admit, they deserve some credit for what they do. For being brave, and at their best, heroic. I respect and admire for what they do that I could not. And the same goes for those brave, and at times heroic, soldiers.
And for the record, I don't think war is necessary, and I don't think most battles need to be fought. I'm non-violent like that.
Posted by: weboy | Nov 3, 2006 10:33:03 AM
Careful, Mr. Klein, Captain Toke is here to defend the troops. As long as they're not Democrats who are decorated combat veterans, whom he gleefully shits all over.
It is interesting that the Right (including Zell Miller) has such a interesting pathology about the troops. They alone protect our political freedoms, even though they have nothing whatsoever to do with making sure that, e.g., the Constitution is actually upheld by politicians. Or whether habeas corpus gets permanently suspended. Or whether there's a paper trail protecting our right to vote. They combine this glorification of "the soldier" (which has numerous interesting historical precedents) with inadequate body armor, inadequate VA funding, abuse of stop loss, and a callous disregard for actually retaining the freedoms our brave boys and girls are supposedly fighting to preserve, at least as long as they're not stinking faggots. All this is conducted by the party with an amazing contingent of politicians who avoided military service when it came knocking. A party that gleefully wallows in the denigration of combat veterans such as Max Cleland, John Murtha, James Webb, John Kerry, and Joseph Darby.
So thanks for your spirited defense of those heroic soldiers, Tokey. It makes such a great change from spitting all over them, as you usually do.
The fact remains, though, that they are there and you are not. They do something you chose not do, and are unlikely - ever - to choose to do.
Just like Captain Toke and Fred Jones, Defenders of America against Liberals, Islamofascists, and Decorated Combat Veterans Who Are Democrats.
Posted by: mds | Nov 3, 2006 10:39:26 AM
A brave post. I agree with much of it. Kudos to doing some real "contrarian" analysis on why we love our troops so much and why.
For all the bluster the trolls spewed, they will never acknowledge the root of (what I think) your point was:
it's bullshit designed to make us feel better, so we don't have to face what we've done to these children, and don't have to imagine the toll a warzone takes on real humans, rather than imagined supermen.
The conservative elite and the 101st fighting keyboarders will never understand the totality of what their war did to our soliders. They won't do what's necessary to help treat a homeless vet with PTSD. They are mere pawns in what they think of as a great sporting event.
Posted by: verplanck colvin | Nov 3, 2006 10:47:05 AM
Ezra's post was not really about the proper way to think of or portray American soldiers.
Rather, it's about the function these views have for everyone else, for those who are not part of the military, who are not in Iraq or Afghanistan. And he is quite right - the adulation and mythologizing about god-like warriors, able to follow any order without hesitation, capable of amazing feats of strength and intelligence, doing it all for their immense love of the United States of America - this allows people to justify the thousands who are dead and the tens of thousands who are wounded, even as each justification for the war itself falls by the wayside.
The Myth of the American Warrior means that even if our soldiers have been killed and wounded for nothing more than one man's hubris and incompetence, it's okay, because their incredibly noble motivations cover how they have been abused and used by their fellow citizens.
But go ahead and worry yourselves over whether Ezra is showing proper respect to soldiers in this post. Be quite concerned that the problem here is Ezra and the fact that, to him, soldiers are human beings with human failings, human strengths and the typical human mixed motivations. Because the point, you know, is to make sure that no one hurts our soldiers' - or their supporters' - feelings.
Posted by: Stephen | Nov 3, 2006 10:49:33 AM
Stephen gets it right. Weboy doesn't. This post isn't speculation. And it doesn't take away from what the hundreds of thousands of Americans currently deposited in Iraq undergo each and every day. It's about the lengths we go to assuage our own guilt and concern by pretending we've sent supermen rather than 19-year-olds. It's easier to think that, and because it's easier, it's become more politically palatable. Look at Toke: He's age-eligible, not in Iraq, but quick to explain the motivations and exceptionalism of those who are. This conflation of glorifying the troops and supporting them makes me almost physically ill.
I don't pretend to know why my friends went -- I saw too many reasons, with too few commonalities, to make a generalization. But I know who they were. Young people. Like me. No better prepared for war than anyone else. And when we weigh this conflict, and the costs of continuing it, we should remember it's being fought by real humans, not imaginary ubermenschen. Even though the latter would be easier.
Posted by: Ezra | Nov 3, 2006 11:08:09 AM
Stephen gets it. Ezra's post reminded me in some ways of Wilfrid Owen's famous poem, "Dulce et Decorum Est," which I think makes a similar point, though from a different perspective.
Posted by: nolo | Nov 3, 2006 11:09:36 AM
oops-- posted before I saw Ezra's comment.
Posted by: nolo | Nov 3, 2006 11:10:39 AM
"Or whether habeas corpus gets permanently suspended."
I didn't know habeas corpus applied to foreign terrorists.
"Or whether there's a paper trail protecting our right to vote."
Of course the left wants to let non-citizens and the dead vote by not requiring someone prove that they can legally vote.
"A party that gleefully wallows in the denigration of combat veterans such as Max Cleland, John Murtha, James Webb, John Kerry, and Joseph Darby."
So anyone who served is beyond reproach? Timothy McVeigh served.
"It makes such a great change from spitting all over them, as you usually do."
It wasn't my political ancestors who spit on drafted vets returning from Vietnam. And apparently, according to Kerry and Hersh, that feeling is still rampant among liberals.
"and a callous disregard for actually retaining the freedoms our brave boys and girls are supposedly fighting to preserve, at least as long as they're not stinking faggots."
I demand an apolgy! Ban him! He didn't use "fag" in the nice way like I used it, and I got banned.
It's only fair.
Posted by: Captain Toke | Nov 3, 2006 11:11:25 AM
That the troops are a bunch of scared 19-year olds rather than comic book heros is all the more reason to honor them.
"There is many a boy here today who looks on war as all glory, but, boys, it is all hell."--W. T. Sherman
"Its glory is all moonshine; even success the most brilliant is over dead and mangled bodies, with the anguish and lamentations of distant families ... It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, more vengeance, more desolation."--W. T. Sherman
Posted by: rea | Nov 3, 2006 11:14:36 AM
Compared to my service years, the military today are shelling out friggin lottery prizes to young men who will sign on. I strongly suspect that some significant percentage of new enlists are putting things like "honor" and "patriotism" a bit further down on the list of reasons for becoming a soldier.
Has anyone ever compiled the number of times that Captain Toke has nervously explained on this message board why he has failed to volunteer his service and expertise in Iraq? It would surely be an entertaining read.
Posted by: sprocket | Nov 3, 2006 11:30:59 AM
Bring back the draft or some such social service.
There are those in society who want to go into the military. They like to for whatever reasons. I have known people like this and I have no problem with that. There are also those who do not. So have them do service for the public good.
having both of these aspects,or conditions, you need not have any deferments or, at least, make them real hard to get.
This way, in theory at least, you're not gonna be so fired up to get into foreign adventures that do not benefit our nation.
People need to remember that in pre WWII there was not a huge standing army...it was an anathema to American ideals. We had a Department of War, not defence.
I understand the ratioanle for the "nuclear" age and the 20 minute time limit if attacked by ICBM's to mount a defence, but that always struck me as a specious argument for the maintaining of a huge army to be used to further the interests of corporate america ( see Gen. Smedly Butler)
In my day, with free and open tuition, most of us went to college, some of us went to trades ( unions etc) and all of us registered for the draft.
Now, my son is enticed by the military to enlist so that he can get money for school in order to study a trade that has been outsourced.
Bring back the draft. I like the idea of a citizen army raised only to defend the homeland from real threats....not pissant, pipsqueak organizations like Al Quaida, Hamas, or Hizbullah.
That's why we have Interpol, Mossad, CIA and MI6
Oh yeah, Capt Toke, show me ONE citation, anything, where anybody ever spat on the troops coming home from Vietnam.
None of my friends ever thought to do it and we were all anti Vietnam....we understood who was to blame and who was not.
Posted by: marcus | Nov 3, 2006 11:31:44 AM
Bring back the draft or some such social service.
Good lord! When there was a draft, the left railed about how unfair it was. How it was like slavery, etc. and called for an all volunteer army.
OK, now we have all volunteer and the rail is, they are the poor who have no other options...it's so unfair. And now, you want to bring back the draft???
Posted by: Fred Jones | Nov 3, 2006 11:57:34 AM
I didn't know habeas corpus applied to foreign terrorists.
There's a whooole lot you don't know, Sparky. Consider this an opportunity to improve yourself.
Now, it wouldn't be totally ridiculous to argue that habeas corpus or for that matter any part of the U.S. Constitution doesn't apply on foreign soil (just so we're clear, it wouldn't be ridiculous to argue the reverse, either, at least as it applies to government employees and representatives). But I dare you to find the clause in the constitution that says it only applies to American citizens. Don't worry, I'm patient.
So anyone who served is beyond reproach? Timothy McVeigh served.
Yes, because deliberately killing over a hundred people is exactly the same as disagreeing with invading and occupying a country in the name of preemptive war freeing them, and anyone who thinks otherwise is a stupid lying Communist!
Really, what does this bit mean, here? You're saying that the military is not beyond reproach. But you lionized them upthread and used that as a (yet another, what a shock!) jumping-off point for saying The Left is out-of-touch, hates America, blah blah blah. So the military in general is beyond reproach except for those former members of it who voice the slightest criticism of something related to it? The military is not beyond reproach, but somehow every single criticism of it in recent memory from people who disagree with Bush has coincidentally just happened to be dishonest and shameless?
Posted by: Cyrus | Nov 3, 2006 12:03:43 PM
"Look at Toke: He's age-eligible, not in Iraq, but quick to explain the motivations and exceptionalism of those who are."
You don't know enough about me to know why I can't serve.
But, you know what, fuck it, I'll tell you why. You clowns don't deserve to know, but I'll put it to rest. I have a conviction on my record that excludes me from military service, I'm not proud of it, but it's there. And I did enlist in the Marines in 1990, I even took the oath in Cleveland, Ohio (right before Gulf War I). Back then, they had a month or so period between enlistment, ASVABs, the physical, the oath, etc. and ship off(I don't know if they still do). During my pre entry partying, I made a big, drunken mistake.
Even the military has standards. They don't only exclude stinking faggots.
Posted by: Captain Toke | Nov 3, 2006 12:04:43 PM
I believe that the draft Marcus was referring to was the recently floated plan (I forget by who, sorry) that gave draftees the option to serve their country either as soldiers in the military or as volunteers in community service. Which I think is an excellent idea.
Posted by: Constance Reader | Nov 3, 2006 12:06:09 PM
Oh yeah, Capt Toke, show me ONE citation, anything, where anybody ever spat on the troops coming home from Vietnam.
Dude, don't let Tokie's fanciful tales of thirty years ago distract you from the way he himself has repeatedly dumped on the service of decorated combat veterans who are Democrats. Not disagreeing with their political points, or actions unrelated to their time in uniform (see McVeigh), but actually mocking their military service. But, oh, Tokie supports the troops, filthy liars and traitors with self-inflicted wounds that they are.
To be fair, though, his admitted drug use would probably be viewed as a negative down at the recruiting station. His support for a party that relies on frothing hatred of homosexuals to motivate its base, however, would count as a plus, since no homosexuals need apply.
And I stand by my invocation of the shrieking hatred that his party has for gay people (though Mr. Klein is free to delete the comment, ban me, or whatever he wishes. Unlike Tokey, I believe that a private blog can be run as the owner sees fit, while licenses for public airwaves imposes obligations.). Gotta give Tokey credit for spinning it, however. Deliberately twisting the clear intent of someone's remarks and lying about it while demanding "fairness" is certainly a popular tactic with his party. Oh, hey, did you hear Rep. Bohner wants to beat Senator Kerry to death? Good for him. Oh, and apparently, it's the fault of the troops that we're not making enough progress in Iraq. Bohner '08!Good lord! When there was a draft, the left railed about how unfair it was.
Good lord! When there was a draft, the left railed about how unfair it was.
Yup. More specifically, some of us railed about how unfair it was that rich war cheerleaders could have their daddies get them cushy billets in champagne Guard units. Or get endless deferments, say to teach vital business classes in Springfield, MO. Or have "other priorities." One can criticize the unfairness of implementation without criticizing the concept. But you know that, Freddie. You're not stupid, just mendacious.
Posted by: mds | Nov 3, 2006 12:08:38 PM
Context matters, Toke. MDS was using it to illustrate the way, say, you used it a few weeks ago. It wasn't derogatory. Your second invocation was. Don't do it again. And don't bait me. You annoy me, but I allow you on this site. The least you can do is respect the few guidelines I lay out.
Posted by: Ezra | Nov 3, 2006 12:21:15 PM
it's bullshit designed to make us feel better, so we don't have to face what we've done to these children, and don't have to imagine the toll a warzone takes on real humans, rather than imagined supermen.
And then the wingnuts show up and prove your point for you by spewing this very bullshit. Well done.
Posted by: Patsy | Nov 3, 2006 12:25:26 PM
My family has several people who have either been in the military, or who are currently serving including in several parts of the Middle East.
Going into the military for black families can often be a way out of being in the low income brackets. They promise you a career, they offer benefits, and they offer educational resources.
Many of them are against the war, but are doing their job anyhow, because that's what you do when you are the military. It's not like the movies where everyone is brave and heroic, but they are brave just the same for making the choices they have to make on a daily basis.
There is a give and take here. We don't have to make them more than they are. We don't have to make them less either. More importantly, we don't have to skirt around the real issue- that a screwed up administration got us into a screwed up war just because we are afraid the troops won't do their job. They will. Maybe not always perfectly- but who in real life is perfect?
Posted by: akaison | Nov 3, 2006 12:31:46 PM
"Oh yeah, Capt Toke, show me ONE citation, anything, where anybody ever spat on the troops coming home from Vietnam."
Well,
"An excerpt from p. 232 of Bob Kerrey's book, "When I Was A Young Man". The future Senator is describing an incident in 1969; he is in Philadelphia undergoing rehab with his prosthetic leg and the incident occurs at the Martin Luther King track meet at Villanova:
"After the race I was taunted by a group of long-haired men who blocked the exit and knocked me to the ground as I pushed past them to leave."
Oh, but you asked about spitting.
"In Tour of Duty, his book about Kerry, historian Douglas Brinkley writes that "While in the Mekong Delta or along the DMZ GIs always dream of ending their tour, of coming home to a national embrace. But when they got home nobody was there to greet them. They were shunned as if they harbored a contagious disease." He goes on to cite historian Marilyn B. Young's The Vietnam Wars: 1945-1990 to support his thesis. Young writes, "Later, many veterans would tell stories of having been spat upon by antiwar protesters, or having heard of veterans who were spat on."
Posted by: Captain Toke | Nov 3, 2006 12:31:59 PM
"Context matters, Toke. MDS was using it to illustrate the way, say, you used it a few weeks ago. It wasn't derogatory. Your second invocation was. Don't do it again. And don't bait me. You annoy me, but I allow you on this site. The least you can do is respect the few guidelines I lay out."
First off, I was joking as far as the 'Demanding an apolgy','Ban him' etc. I guess you all didn't get the joke. But you got Kerry's joke?
Second, if you are saying that the way mds used "stinking faggots" in this thread is OK but the way I used it in this thread is wrong, well then fuck off. That is a double standard. What you are saying is that the liberals here can use the word "fag" or "faggot" in any context and those who are not liberal can not.
Posted by: Captain Toke | Nov 3, 2006 12:39:38 PM
Fred,
It is worse than that. Conscription is slavery. Yet another scheme by governments to get cheap labor without competing with industry.
Interestingly enough, looking at labor statistics the other day (in relation to that unintentionally deceptive graph about male/female salaries); USA governments appear to pay better average hourly salaries than the private sector.
Go ahead and start a draft and/or 'public service' and watch those reverse.
No matter what pretty name you give it, forcing people to work is slavery. The most vocal recent advocate on that form of slavery would be the Honorable Charles Rangel (D-NY) and it is no mistake that the Socialist Left are the only people who have recently advocated a draft.
Posted by: Guy Montag | Nov 3, 2006 12:48:13 PM
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