Ezra Klein: Murtha v. Hoyer

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November 13, 2006

Murtha v. Hoyer

Matt's got an interesting rundown of the Murtha/Hoyer voting records showing that, generally speaking, Murtha is to Hoyer's right. That said, Murtha still strikes me as the more liberal choice.

In the end, this is less about the Majority Leader than the Speaker. Hoyer represents a more moderate, corporatist stance, and has often whipped in its service. He provided organization and cover for the 73 Democrats -- including him -- who voted for the Bankruptcy Bill. He's got a long-standing personal and political rivalry with Pelosi and will work to establish himself as an independent power center, and will be waiting with a shiv if she slips up. Murtha, who is likely running at Pelosi's request, is her ally first, a centrist second. Given that, this particular contest comes down to how powerful you think Speaker Pelosi should be. In essence, a vote for Murtha is a vote for Pelosi. A vote for Hoyer is a vote against her. And I've few concerns about Pelosi's liberalism.

November 13, 2006 | Permalink

Comments

I agree. Murtha has had a long friendship with Pelosi and ran her campaign for whip. He is very loyal to her and she appreciates this. I'm glad she is showing her friendship in backing him.
Importantly, Murtha has shown his marine self in not being afraid to voice opinion and to stand his ground. this will help her in keeping surly republicans and wayward democrats in line. Make sure people are doing the right thing. This and his loyality to his friend will help nancy to be the success she should and could be.

Posted by: vwcat | Nov 13, 2006 1:01:21 AM

I agree. Murtha. Not that our input matters at all.

You put it much more nicely than I did in Matt's comments.

Posted by: bob mcmanus | Nov 13, 2006 1:04:06 AM

The visuals with Murtha are better (provided his pork doesn't come back to haunt him). He can play the plain speaking crusty old military guy so Pelosi can show her softer Italian granny side. I like it.

I don't think either is a very adept talk show lizard though. Can't they create a Head Spinner position for Hoyer?

And how's this for postmodern smash-ups: the Pentagon has a direct line to the San Francisco liberal Speaker's office... Heh heh.

Posted by: kvenlander | Nov 13, 2006 1:37:22 AM

Murtha brings so much more to the table than Hoyer for the Dems as a whole. He would show how serious - whatever that means - the Democrats are on national security, because our Majority Leader would be a former Marine who is beloved by the Pentagon and rank-and-file of our military. He also would show how big-tent the Democrats are because our Majority Leader is one of the most conservative Democrats around.

And I think Murtha is impressive as hell on TV, much more so than our younger, "more handsome and eloquent" politicians.

And Steny Hoyer has done what, exactly, that demonstrates real leadership? Maybe he's the go-to guy for House rules, or is really good at backroom dealing. But the Majority Leader is a public position, a public leader of the Democratic party who will be called upon to speak for the rest of us. It's time for the Democrats to be intentional about these kinds of things and think through the ramifications of our choices - beyond what K Street, the business community and Fox News think.

Posted by: Stephen | Nov 13, 2006 2:31:01 AM

Good points, Ezra, although even if Murtha doesn't obey Pelosi's every word, I think he'd still be a better choice, if these two are the only options. Both Hoyer and Murtha inhabit roughly the same conservative quartile of the Democratic Party, after all. I imagine that the differences on, say, domestic issues are probably rather minimal, when it comes right down to it. But Murtha is a strong voice in favor of ending this Iraq disaster and Hoyer isn't.

Also, Hoyer seems to feel very strongly about creating a Democratic version of the K Street Project in a way that Murtha simply doesn't, although lord knows that when defense contractors say jump Murtha says how high and all that.

Related to that, I guess my biggest concern is that, for his part, Murtha seems to be personally invested in expanding the military-industrial state in a way that Hoyer isn't. The NYT did a mini-profile of the guy a few months ago that delved into this. I'm too lazy to find the link, but it's worrisome. I doubt Pelosi can keep him on a short rope when it comes to throwing money at the Pentagon. It's almost fitting that a committed militarist is the great liberal hope. Yikes.

Posted by: Brad Plumer | Nov 13, 2006 2:31:37 AM

I was going to post on this too, but I got really drunk and fell asleep before I put up the post. It basically says what you said above, so I won't bother posting it on the page. Here's what was in the text box before I conked out:

Assuming that it works, I'm feeling pretty good about Nancy Pelosi's decision to endorse Jack Murtha for majority leader. Josh Marshall says, "She's making a play to really rule the place" and I'm a big enough Pelosi fan to support that. The biggest strike against Murtha is that he's anti-choice, but the pro-choice movement is strong enough in the Democratic Party that it may not matter. Democratic committee chairs aren't going to let any anti-choice legislation see the light of day, and that should keep the issue from coming up in the House. And again, I have enough faith in Nancy that I want her to get what she wants. The influence of K Street will be a bigger issue, and that's one on which I want Pelosi to triumph over Hoyer. My big concern about Pelosi's decision is that maybe it doesn't work, and maybe then Pelosi and Hoyer don't work well together.

Posted by: Neil the Ethical Werewolf | Nov 13, 2006 3:16:54 AM

I'm less worried about the particulars - I lived in Maryland and Hoyer's not necessarily as bad as all that, and Murtha's a bit of a controversial figure who could make himself an issue when it's not needed. But the politics of it should be interesting - remember that in 1994, the contest for House Majority Whip turned into a battle where the new Speaker tried to assert his power, and he lost. The Speaker? Newt Gingrich. And who won the Whip race? Tom DeLay. I hope Pelosi has her ducks in a row on this one, because if Hoyer wasn't a danger to her before, he will certainly be one if he wins.

Posted by: weboy | Nov 13, 2006 6:14:31 AM

My main problem is that Murtha is pretty darn corrupt, including a lot of the things republicans did that got them kicked out of congress (deals for his brother's clients/companies, etc). After cleaning house, I'm not sure it makes sense (or is wise) to put someone in a position of power who has a lot of the baggage that got the previous government removed.

We don't just need liberal leaders; we need very ethical liberal leaders, because we need to provide a sharp contrast to the past 6 years and drive up the confidence in our policies in the electorate.

Posted by: Fnor | Nov 13, 2006 7:32:33 AM

Hoyer has the huge Patuxent River naval operation in his district, That makes him hawkish fo the sake of survival.

Posted by: ATS | Nov 13, 2006 9:14:17 AM

All this sudden netroots respect for Pelosi!

Do you think kos and Bowers will ever apologize for, or even acknowledge, all the time they spent attacking, berating, and villifying her earlier this year?

Posted by: Chris | Nov 13, 2006 9:53:42 AM

I agree with Fnor. When Murtha was trying to explain in Roll Call why he should be Majority Leader, he cited his status on Defense Approps and the power that flowed from that. That is a terrifying statement, given the trouble that Approps has run into in the past few years (remember, Duke Cunningham put a lot of his earmarks Defense's "Black Budget"). I don't think that Dems should shy away from having anti-war leaders, but come on, this guy is a nightmare for delivering that message, his military credentials aside.

Posted by: Jeff | Nov 13, 2006 10:34:47 AM

Chris,

I am getting sick of reading postings such as yours wherein folks like you come online to whine about whichever annointed leader that you feel has been in the past criticized (and consequently words like bashed are thrown around or you can't let it go). It's called accountability. Something that the Republicans had a problem with, and that the Democrats, if they want to remain in leadership can not. No one is sacrosanct, and nor should they be. Criticizing Pelosi doesn't mean people think that she can not be a good leader. It means, on the topics of the time, they have a problem with her. Can you not get that concept?

Posted by: akaison | Nov 13, 2006 10:35:52 AM

By, the way, I say Murtha, although he is a flawed choice, mostly because I think he represents an opportunity for the Democrats to find some discipline in messaging. The Republicans are most certainly, if Grover Norquist and James Dobson etc are to be believed, going to veer hard right and try to manipulate every bit of legislation they can to regain power in 2008. We can not have a Clinton situation from 1993 where the newly elected official comes into office with lots of promise only to get knocked around at first by the Republicans. I feel that if there is even a hint that the other guy will be jocking for his own fiefdom, and that it will be at odds by distracting the Democrats with infighting over not issues, but turf wars, then clearly Murtha should be the majority leader over the other guy. Neither choice is perfect, but of the two, this one is the better strategic choice I would guess.

Posted by: akaison | Nov 13, 2006 10:41:59 AM

I sure wish Murtha was totally clean on scandal material (but how many are?). Hoyer is and has been way too DINO for a long time - especially since MD is clearly blue.

But, my biggest concern is K Street influence. If the Dems can reduce their influence with leadership choices and rules changes, that is all to the good. Hoyer would not lead that change.

Posted by: JimPortlandOR | Nov 13, 2006 10:54:36 AM

Posted by: Fnor | Nov 13, 2006 4:32:33 AM My main problem is that Murtha is pretty darn corrupt, including a lot of the things republicans did that got them kicked out of congress (deals for his brother's clients/companies, etc). After cleaning house, I'm not sure it makes sense (or is wise) to put someone in a position of power who has a lot of the baggage that got the previous government removed.

And he doesn't have a bigger temptation as chair of Defense Appropriations? I think its a double win, in getting a Pelose ally as Majority Leader and removing Murtha from the chair of Defense Appropriations.

Posted by: BruceMcF | Nov 13, 2006 11:20:43 AM

I posted a link to this Times piece on Murtha's vote-trading (and apparent Dem-screwing) downthread. I'd love for someone to convince me that Murtha is going to be a more reliable Majority Leader than Hoyer (as opposed to more personally loyal to Pelosi, which I buy), but I'm not currently feeling it.

Posted by: Steve | Nov 13, 2006 11:47:44 AM

Murtha will go down in history as the most influential opponent of the war in Iraq, the hawk's hawk who had the bravery to say he was wrong. Never mind majority leader, he should get the Nobel Peace Prize. His becoming majority leader would both reward his courage and futher identify the Dems as (credible) opponents of the war. At the same time he's a rustbelt conservative who contrasts nicely with Pelosi.

My one reservation is that neither Pelosi nor Murtha is good in TV.

Posted by: david mizner | Nov 13, 2006 12:38:19 PM

Murtha voted for the bankruptcy bill too.

And Murtha is hardly a "centrist". Brad DeLong is a centrist, Rahm Emanuel is a "centrist", Murtha is the most conservative Dem outside the deep south.

Posted by: DRR | Nov 13, 2006 3:09:18 PM

Murtha is from rural Pennsylvania with Johnstown the only city of size in his district. It is a socially conservative, hawkish place. Meanwhile Hoyer is from a suburban Blue district which includes the flagship of the U of M system and he is still a centrist tool.

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Posted by: 康网 | Nov 13, 2006 10:22:10 PM

From ROLL CALL this afternoon:
Murtha Calls Ethics Bill ‘Total Crap’
Wednesday, Nov. 15; 1:14 pm
By John Bresnahan,
Roll Call Staff

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Rep. John Murtha (D-Pa.) told a group of Democratic moderates on Tuesday that an ethics and lobbying reform bill being pushed by party leaders was “total crap,” but said that he would work to enact the legislation because Speaker-to-be Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) supports it.

Murtha and Rep. Steny Hoyer (D-Md.) are locked in a battle for the House Majority Leader post, and both men made presentations for to the Blue Dog Coalition on Tuesday in a bid for their votes.

“Even though I think it’s total crap, I’ll vote for it and pass it because that’s what Nancy wants,” Murtha told the Blue Dogs, according to three sources who were at the meeting.

Pelosi has made enactment of the Honest Leadership and Open Government Act the cornerstone of her legislative agenda for the 110th Congress, and she is preparing to make it the first bill introduced under her reign. Murtha voted against the legislation earlier this year on the House floor.

Congressional corruption was a major issue for voters in the recent midterm elections, and Pelosi has pledged to clean-up the Congress as part of her efforts to reform the House.

A Democratic lawmaker, speaking on the condition of anonymity, said he was “surprised” by the tone of Murtha’s comments, especially Murtha’s repeated claim that he would back any proposal that Pelosi favored. This lawmaker has already declared for Hoyer.

“‘My agenda will be Nancy’s agenda’ — he kept saying that,” the lawmaker said. “The performance was stunningly awful.”

Another Democrat who was in the room said Murtha’s remarks, especially on the ethics and lobbying reform bill, “were not the right thing to say in front of a roomful of Blue Dogs.”

Murtha office’s did not comment for for this article.

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