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September 13, 2006

So Which Is It?

It looks, rather surprisingly, like John McCain, Lindsey Graham, and John Warner are readying to take substantive stands against the Bush administrations attempt to torture by another name. The nut of the disagreement is over Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions, which prohibits "outrages upon personal dignity, in particular humiliating and degrading treatment." The Bushies, through some complicated legal footwork, are trying to invalidate that prohibition. McCain, Graham, and Warner appear unwilling to allow it, and are crafting their own compromise that actually follows the Geneva Convention.

Right now, we basically have two tiers of interrogation: The Army, which fully abides by the Geneva Conventions, and the CIA, which tortures. That may make sense, save for the total lack of evidence that the CIA"s program is either more effective or a useful compliment to the traditional methods of interrogation. Lt. General John Kimmons, the Army's deputy chief of staff for intelligence, explained to reporters last week that:

No good intelligence is going to come from abusive practices. I think history tells us that. I think the empirical evidence of the last five years, hard years, tells us that. And, moreover, any piece of intelligence which is obtained under duress, through the use of abusive techniques, would be of questionable credibility, and additionally it would do more harm than good when it inevitably became known that abusive practices were used. And we can’t afford to go there. Some of our most significant successes on the battlefield have been—in fact, I would say all of them, almost categorically all of them, have accrued from expert interrogators using mixtures of authorized humane interrogation practices, in clever ways that you would hope Americans would use them, to push the envelope within the bookends of legal, moral, and ethical, now as further refined by this field manual. So we don’t need abusive practices in there.

Now, either the Bush administration believes Kimmons is dangerously uninformed on the outcomes of various interrogation methods and should be fired, or they agree with him and should listen to his advice. If, however, they think the War on Terror is The Most Important Thing Ever and no mistakes can be made nor weaknesses allowed, retaining a deputy chief of intelligence who doesn't understand the art of gathering intelligence from prisoners is a pretty massive oversight.

Crossposted at Tapped

September 13, 2006 | Permalink

Comments

Let me preface this by saying I am absolutely opposed to the use of torture, and outraged that W has sanctioned torture. However, your statement that there is a "total lack of evidence that the CIA's program is either more effective or a useful compliment to the traditional methods of interrogation" is absurd. You could not possibly know what evidence the CIA has marshalled about the effectiveness of its interrogation techniques.

Posted by: ostap | Sep 13, 2006 1:04:06 PM

McCain/Graham/Warner are going along with habeas-stripping and they're also messing with Article 3. It's unAmerican and you should call them on it.

Posted by: rilkefan | Sep 13, 2006 4:00:30 PM

Since when does the Geneva Conventions cover the current non-uniformed enemy we face? While we are on the subject of Geneva Conventions, why aren't you outraged at the suicide bombings of civilians and the beheadings the enemy practices?

What's with that?

Posted by: Fred Jones | Sep 13, 2006 10:24:39 PM

Since when does the Geneva Conventions cover the current non-uniformed enemy we face? While we are on the subject of Geneva Conventions, why aren't you outraged at the suicide bombings of civilians and the beheadings the enemy practices?

What's with that?

Geneva conventions be damned. While I am outraged at the suicide bombings and beheadings, I am more appalled that our enlightened nation would move in the direction of becoming just like them. We are supposed to be better than them - becoming them is simply ludicrous.

Posted by: DuWayne | Sep 14, 2006 12:33:15 PM

I find it completely absurd and embarrassing that our administration is attempting to legalize "outrages upon personal dignity, in particular humiliating and degrading treatment."

We are not talking about hypothetical scenarios, we are talking about both the conduct of our agents/troops and the safety and treatment of our military in future conflicts.

Posted by: disdaniel | Sep 15, 2006 2:00:15 AM

You could not possibly know what evidence the CIA has marshalled about the effectiveness of its interrogation techniques.

Well, if they do have such evidence, I reckon Kimmons has a need to know.

Posted by: Kevin Donoghue | Sep 18, 2006 5:51:44 PM

Here is a website that provides an easy way to write to your senators to tell them not to give a free pass for torture and war crimes (from JustForeignPolicy.org)

http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/involved/warcrimes091906.html

Posted by: Patrick | Sep 19, 2006 5:03:12 PM

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