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September 09, 2006

Constructive Criticism

By Neil the Ethical Werewolf

It looks like public pressure is strong against the Disney/ABC right-wing fanfic docudrama about 9/11, and the network is thinking about killing the program entirely.  The biggest problem is the made-up scene where Clinton's people inexplicably refuse to allow a hit on Osama bin Laden.

I don't think this flaw warrants the cancellation of the entire program -- something similar to that really happened.  All we need is a little editing, and some new actors to play the folks who were actually involved:

One of them was Brig. Gen. James N. Mattis, the commander of some 4,000 marines who had arrived in the Afghan theater by now. Mattis, along with another officer with whom I spoke, was convinced that with these numbers he could have surrounded and sealed off bin Laden's lair, as well as deployed troops to the most sensitive portions of the largely unpatrolled border with Pakistan. He argued strongly that he should be permitted to proceed to the Tora Bora caves. The general was turned down. An American intelligence official told me that the Bush administration later concluded that the refusal of Centcom to dispatch the marines - along with their failure to commit U.S. ground forces to Afghanistan generally - was the gravest error of the war.

A week or so after General Mattis's request was denied, the turning point in the battle of Tora Bora came. It was Dec. 12. Hajji Zaman had by now realized that the Qaeda fighters were better armed than his men and that they were also prepared to die rather than surrender to him. He was also becoming increasingly irritated with Hazarat Ali and with the snow. And in a few days the feast of Eid al-Fitr, which ends Ramadan, would begin. The stalemate, the Americans' surrogate commander decided, simply had to end. So, through a series of intermediaries and then directly, Hajji Zaman made radio contact with some of bin Laden's commanders and offered a cease-fire. The Americans were furious. The negotiations - to which Hazarat Ali acquiesced since he, too, was now holding secret talks with Al Qaeda - continued for hours. By the time they came to an end, Hajji Zaman's interlocutor, hidden somewhere in the caves above, was probably bin Laden's son Salah Uddin. If the Qaeda forces surrendered, Hajji Zaman's contact said, it would be only to the United Nations. Then he requested additional time to meet with other commanders. He would be back in touch by 8 the following morning, the younger bin Laden said.

American intelligence officials now believe that some 800 Qaeda fighters escaped Tora Bora that night. Others had already left; still others stayed behind, including bin Laden. "You've got to give him credit," Gary Schroen, a former C.I.A. officer who led the first American paramilitary team into Afghanistan in 2001, told me. "He stayed in Tora Bora until the bitter end." By the time the Afghan militias advanced to the last of the Tora Bora caves, no one of any significance remained: about 20 bedraggled young men were taken prisoner that day, Dec. 17.

September 9, 2006 | Permalink

Comments

Honestly, I really have nothing against 9/11 dodudrama. I don't know why there are so many who protests against it. Am I missing something?

Posted by: nor81 | Sep 9, 2006 4:27:58 AM

" I don't know why there are so many who protests against it."

Because it claims to be a "docu-" and be based on the 9-11 Commission Report. I mean, taking the words "and" and "the" from a report, while contradicting everything else about the report, still does not allow someone to reference said report, unless we have already gone off the deep end.

Posted by: Sky-Ho | Sep 9, 2006 7:36:56 AM

What has Junta Boy's party done that wasn't based on projection?

Posted by: Davis X. Machina | Sep 9, 2006 10:09:59 AM

The writer attributed specific actions to higher-ups in the Clinton admin in order to convey their indifferent attitude toward al Qaeda. The docudrama is five hours long and tries to condense eight years of history. To be honest, I don't think that specific quotes or specific actions should be attributed to people (Berger, Albright) if they didn't actually do or say those things. The writer should have conveyed the Clinton admin's oblivious attitude toward al Qaeda in a different way.

That said, I wrote this somewhere else but it applies here.

-Speaking of the ABC docudrama, what party do you think supports cesorship? When lies and half truths about Bush or conservatives are published or broadcast, elected Republicans do not threaten the writers or broadcasters. Private conservative groups might, but elected Republicans don't.

In 2004 when Sinclair was going to broadcast the Kerry documentary, Kerry threatened to 'make Sinclair pay' if he was elected, if they ran the documentary. The same with a movie theatre that was considering showing the documentary. His people even drafted papers to file a lawsuit.

Were any theatres threatened with retaliation or lawsuits for running Michael Moore's propoganda film by Republican lawmakers? No.

Harry Reid and Chucky Schumer have made veiled threats against ABC if they don't change or cancel the Docudrama.

Is the Clinton legacy really so fragile that a TV show would discredit him?

Why don't you guys just send Sandy Burglar to ABC and have him stuff the film down his pants?

Posted by: Captain Toke | Sep 9, 2006 10:28:21 AM

"Because it claims to be a "docu-" and be based on the 9-11 Commission Report."

Michael Moore and the left called his propoganda film F-9/11 a "documentary" which implies it is true.

I can name three lies off the top of my head.

Gore won Florida and the 2000 election. - False

Thousands of blacks were disenfranchised and kept from voting in the 2000 election. - False, No one can cite 1 proven case of disenfranchisement in Florida in 2000

Bush admin immediately flew the Bin Laden relatives out of the country with no interviews or scrutiny by the FBI - False

I have seen the film once over a year ago, I can name three lies off the top of my head, if I researched it I am sure I could document many more (there are web pages dedicated to the lies of Michael Moore), yet where was the left's outrage over F-9/11?

Goebbels has more credability than Michael Moore.

Did you know that in one of his propoganda films (I think it was "Bowling For Columbine") Moore actually tried to blame a little kid taking a gun to school and shooting someone on MI's 'welfare to work' program?

Posted by: Captain Toke | Sep 9, 2006 10:45:58 AM

Ha, ha, ha. I'll deal with your off-topic dope smoke in a bit, CT.

On-topic, what fascinates me about the 9/11 fantasy agitprop are not the sins of omission ("all right, you've covered your ass now" needs to be in any well-made dramatization) or the beaten-to-death ones of commission. What fascinates me is that a bunch of Christian Reconstructionists can get work in Hollywood and place a major piece like this on a network. These people are not only batshit crazy, they are part of the one US polity that could potentially form a real American fascism. One, of course, I want my guys on the loony left to do better (F911 did okay at the box office, but those aren't "my guys", they're just New Deal Democrats with a muckraking streak). Two, more to the point, I wonder why nobody thinks this is more dangerous. It isn't this piece that scares me, it's the next ten. To the extent US conservatives were ever sincere antifascists, I wonder why this doesn't scare the right as much as the left.

Off-topic, for our favorite pothead. One, Gore won the election by a half-million votes; had rational recounts proceeded, he would have won Florida and that fabulous institution the electoral college, too. However, you have a point, in that Bush won the only election that mattered, 5-4. Two, my wife is a political scientist who works on elections, and moreover whose 90-year-old great-uncle is a Palm Beach Democrat. On disenfranchisement, tell us another one. Joe-McCarthy-a-great-man seems a popular counterfactual with your stripe these days. Three, many rich Saudis were in fact flown out with State Department help shortly after 9/11, including bin-Laden relatives, a large and very rich family. What's at issue is whether this is meaningful; I tend to believe it is completely innocent.

Marijuana can mess with your memory. Cut back a little. Jeez, Goebbels? Holocaust denial is next, man. You don't want to go there. Save some cash and smoke less herb. You can spend the extra money on community-college history class.

Posted by: wcw | Sep 9, 2006 11:55:27 AM

I don't care if they won't to make shit up (par for the Republican course) but I do care that they were planning to send this into the school system. That's where my line is. Just like intelligent design you don't get to fuck with kids head with shit you make up- that's my simple motto

Posted by: akaison | Sep 9, 2006 12:57:07 PM

As to Captain Toke's point about Michael Moore: if the producers of PT9/11 wanted to sell their swill at the local multiplex cinema, I would have had no objection. Or if ABC had shown Fahrenheit 9/11 without commercial interruption in an election season, I'd have no cause to object to the PT9/11 airing.

Posted by: kth | Sep 9, 2006 1:20:21 PM

"One, Gore won the election by a half-million votes; had rational recounts proceeded, he would have won Florida"

PBS is not exactly a conservative source.

"More than three months after Democrat Al Gore conceded the hotly contested 2000 election, an independent hand recount of Florida's ballots released today says he would have lost anyway, even if officials would have allowed the hand count he requested.

In the first full study of Florida's ballots since the election ended, The Miami Herald and USA Today reported George W. Bush would have widened his 537-vote victory to a 1,665-vote margin if the recount ordered by the Florida Supreme Court would have been allowed to continue, using standards that would have allowed even faintly dimpled "undervotes" -- ballots the voter has noticeably indented but had not punched all the way through -- to be counted."

Ouch!

"No one can cite 1 proven case of disenfranchisement in Florida in 2000"

I am still waiting for 1 proven case.

"many rich Saudis were in fact flown out with State Department help shortly after 9/11, including bin-Laden relatives, a large and very rich family."

Not according to Richard Clark

"Moore's Bush covertly undermined the investigation of bin Laden by allowing members of the Saudi family, who coincidentally have business relations with the Bush family, from being questioned after the attacks. This reeks of conspiracy until one learns that Richard Clark single-handedly authorized the flight. "It didn't get any higher than me," he recently told the 9/11 commission."

Even SLATE, another liberal rag, had to admit Moore's movie is propoganda.

"The lies of Michael Moore."

If you only read liberal propoganda, you are going to look stupid when you try to argue liberal lies as truth.

"you don't get to fuck with kids head with shit you make up- that's my simple motto"

akaison, public school teachers showed Moore's tripe in classes and assigned kids to watch it and report on it.

"if the producers of PT9/11 wanted to sell their swill at the local multiplex cinema, I would have had no objection."

kth, no Republican law makers threatened to sue theatres for showing Fahrenheit 9/11. Kerry's campaign, with Kerry's approval, threatened to sue a theatre that was going to screen the documentary about Kerry during the 2004 election.

The funny thing is that I can out think all of you blistered stoned. It helps when the truth is on your side.

Posted by: Captain Toke | Sep 9, 2006 3:29:18 PM

Slate isn't liberal.

The broadcast spectrum is owned by the public, that's why the rules are different from the cinema. The Kerry hit piece that Sinclair wanted to broadcast was an even more blatant form of laundered pro bono political advertising. I posited an apples-to-apples comparison, you keep wanting to compare apples to walnuts.

The four-county recount that Al Gore asked for is irrelevant, as it wasn't Al Gore's rights in question, but those of all the voters in Florida. And if there had been a statewide recount, and all the ballots would have been counted by the legal standard in effect ("clear intent of the voter"), Gore would have won.
(for more info, see this Wikipedia article

Posted by: kth | Sep 9, 2006 4:44:28 PM

kth,

1) SLATE is liberal.

2)Kerry tried to keep a movie theatre from showing the documentary about him! That is pretty simple. That documentary had more truth in it than Moore's propoganda film. No elected Republican tried to sue theatres.

3) Gore could only have won if the most liberal counting methods were used, including counting all the Jews who voted for Buchanon as Gore votes, counting all unclear votes as Gore votes and not counting the Military votes, that the Gore camp petitioned the court to do(to not count the unpostmarked, absentee military ballots). Why on Earth would anyone want to keep our military from voting?

Wikipedia lets anyone post on their site. I'm sorry, but my three sources(PBS, The Miami Herald and USA Today) are more credible than Wikipedia.

You lose.

Posted by: Captain Toke | Sep 9, 2006 5:22:05 PM

(1) Thanks to Capt. Toke for confirming what I have long argued ... this absurd notion that "liberal" means something left of centre that the radical right has been pushing since the 1970's stands exposed as hot air, given that Slate is Liberal and it is certainly not left of centre.

(2) Gore would have won if not for the disenfranchisement of voters prior to the election. The GOP learned their lessons and applied them here in Ohio in 2004 ... disenfranchises first, then steal the required victory margin in safe rural counties.

(3) If the same standard is applied to the mockudrama PT911 as was applied to The Reagans, it is taken off the air and put out over narrowcast networks.

(4) In any event, the benefit of having these kind of radical right evangelicals running your agenda through deniable channels comes with a downside in terms of command and control ... there is going to be a backlash from this event, though this may be moderated if, as indicated by some reviews, it is a tedious affair that will shed viewers hour by hour.

Posted by: BruceMcF | Sep 10, 2006 4:01:01 AM

No one can give 1 proven example of disenfranchisement in the 2000 election! You lose more credibility(if you had any left) everytime you cry disenfranchisement yet fail to produce proof.

I did my part in Ohio in 2004. I have friends in the UAW in Akron and convinced them (and other union members) not to vote. How could they vote for Kerry? A) What have Dems done for unions in the last 20 years? NAFTA? B)A vote for Dems is a vote for gay marriage, abortion on demand, a 'more sensitive' war on terror, gun control, "Under God" out of the pledge, etc., none of which are blue collar values.

No elected Republicans threatened CBS's license over "The Reagans". Ronald Reagan was dying of Alzheimers and could not defend himself. What is Clinton's excuse? Because PT9/11 is true?

"there is going to be a backlash from this event,"

The backlash is going to come from Americans wondering why Dems are so afraid of this movie. Is the Clinton legacy really so fragile that a TV show can Bring it down?

Posted by: Captain Toke | Sep 10, 2006 8:55:22 AM

what the hell are y'all arguing with capt toke as though he is anything but a bullshit artist?

Posted by: akaison | Sep 10, 2006 5:55:16 PM

I left his stale smoke signals for second for a reason, but you're right -- I should have resisted. In part as a result of my weakness, instead of discussing that Christian Reconstructionist agitprop is going on the air tomorrow, we get to rehash the same tired, partisan cover stories floated by the same wheezy pothead.

My apologies for being part of the problem, not the solution.

CT, if you'd like an introduction to my wife's great uncle, he makes a mean margarita. A warning, though: if you try these lines on him, you are liable to find out how it feels to have a 94-year-old man kick you square in the nuts.

Posted by: wcw | Sep 11, 2006 2:37:29 AM

Sparky two days ago:
To be honest, I don't think that specific quotes or specific actions should be attributed to people (Berger, Albright) if they didn't actually do or say those things.
Sparky one day ago:
No elected Republicans threatened CBS's license over "The Reagans"... What is Clinton's excuse? Because PT9/11 is true?
Sparky's inspiration:
A little Rumpelstiltskin figure, contorted with hatred, he gripped the neck of the microphone with one hand while the other, enormous at the end of a bony arm, clawed the air menacingly above his head. His voice, made metallic by the amplifiers, boomed forth an endless catalogue of atrocities, massacres, deportations, lootings, rapings, torture of prisoners, bombing of civilians, lying propaganda, unjust aggressions, broken treaties... The speech had been proceeding for perhaps twenty minutes when a messenger hurried on to the platform and a scrap of paper was slipped into the speaker's hand. He unrolled and read it without pausing in his speech. Nothing altered in his voice or manner, or in the content of what he was saying, but suddenly the names were different. Without words said, a wave of understanding rippled through the crowd. Oceania was at war with Eastasia! The next moment there was a tremendous commotion. The banners and posters with which the square was decorated were all wrong! Quite half of them had the wrong faces on them. It was sabotage!

Posted by: Cyrus | Sep 11, 2006 10:46:55 AM

香水有毒
求佛
秋天不回来
不怕不怕
千里之外
秋天不回来
求佛
香飘飘
我们都是好孩子
不怕不怕
不要再来伤害我
天下无双
狼爱上羊
老公老公我爱你
寻找李慧珍
god is a girl
大城小爱
舞娘
老婆老婆我爱你
曹操
qq爱
约定
那一夜
隐形的翅膀
光芒
飞行部落
真爱
冰菊舞
死了都要爱
一万个理由
反转地球
my love
好姑娘
爱我别走
我不后悔
飞舞
yesterday once more
王子变青蛙
We will rock you
不得不爱
夜曲
发如雪
爸爸妈妈
爱我就别伤害我
我很想爱他
桃花朵朵开
神话
笔记
吉祥三宝
不想长大
暧昧
迷魂计
花田错
秋天不回来
求佛
香飘飘
我们都是好孩子
不怕不怕
不要再来伤害我
天下无双
狼爱上羊
老公老公我爱你
寻找李慧珍
god is a girl
大城小爱
舞娘
老婆老婆我爱你
曹操
qq爱
约定
那一夜
隐形的翅膀
光芒
飞行部落
真爱
冰菊舞
死了都要爱
一万个理由
反转地球
my love
好姑娘
爱我别走
我不后悔
飞舞
yesterday once more
王子变青蛙
We will rock you
不得不爱
夜曲
发如雪
爸爸妈妈
爱我就别伤害我
我很想爱他
桃花朵朵开
神话
笔记
吉祥三宝
不想长大
暧昧
迷魂计
花田错
秋天不回来
求佛
香飘飘
我们都是好孩子
不怕不怕
不要再来伤害我
天下无双
狼爱上羊
老公老公我爱你
寻找李慧珍
god is a girl
大城小爱
舞娘
老婆老婆我爱你
曹操
qq爱
约定
那一夜
隐形的翅膀
光芒
飞行部落
真爱
冰菊舞
死了都要爱
一万个理由
反转地球
my love
好姑娘
爱我别走
我不后悔
飞舞
yesterday once more
王子变青蛙
We will rock you
不得不爱
夜曲
发如雪
爸爸妈妈
爱我就别伤害我
我很想爱他
桃花朵朵开
神话
笔记
吉祥三宝
不想长大
暧昧
迷魂计
花田错
秋天不回来
求佛
香飘飘
我们都是好孩子
不怕不怕
不要再来伤害我
天下无双
狼爱上羊
老公老公我爱你
寻找李慧珍
god is a girl
大城小爱
舞娘
老婆老婆我爱你
曹操
qq爱
约定
那一夜
隐形的翅膀
光芒
飞行部落
真爱
冰菊舞
死了都要爱
一万个理由
反转地球
my love
好姑娘
爱我别走
我不后悔
飞舞
yesterday once more
王子变青蛙
We will rock you
不得不爱
夜曲
发如雪
爸爸妈妈
爱我就别伤害我
我很想爱他
桃花朵朵开
神话
笔记
吉祥三宝
不想长大
暧昧
迷魂计
花田错
秋天不回来
求佛
香飘飘
我们都是好孩子
不怕不怕
不要再来伤害我
天下无双
狼爱上羊
老公老公我爱你
寻找李慧珍
god is a girl
大城小爱
舞娘
老婆老婆我爱你
曹操
qq爱
约定
那一夜
隐形的翅膀
光芒
飞行部落
真爱
冰菊舞
死了都要爱
一万个理由
反转地球
my love
好姑娘
爱我别走
我不后悔
飞舞
yesterday once more
王子变青蛙
We will rock you
不得不爱
夜曲
发如雪
爸爸妈妈
爱我就别伤害我
我很想爱他
桃花朵朵开
神话
笔记
吉祥三宝
不想长大
暧昧
迷魂计
花田错
秋天不回来
求佛
香飘飘
我们都是好孩子
不怕不怕
不要再来伤害我
天下无双
狼爱上羊
老公老公我爱你
寻找李慧珍
god is a girl
大城小爱
舞娘
老婆老婆我爱你
曹操
qq爱
约定
那一夜
隐形的翅膀
光芒
飞行部落
真爱
冰菊舞
死了都要爱
一万个理由
反转地球
my love
好姑娘
爱我别走
我不后悔
飞舞
yesterday once more
王子变青蛙
We will rock you
不得不爱
夜曲
发如雪
爸爸妈妈
爱我就别伤害我
我很想爱他
桃花朵朵开
神话
笔记
吉祥三宝
不想长大
暧昧
迷魂计
花田错
香水有毒
秋天不回来
香飘飘
你是我的玫瑰花
求佛
千里之外
狼爱上羊
天下无双
上海滩
寻找李慧珍
不怕不怕
健康快乐动起来
号码
我们都是好孩子
对不起我的最爱
老婆老婆我爱你
爱上你这样的女人
qq爱
大城小爱
认真的雪
隐形的翅膀
光芒
god is a girl
舞娘
好姑娘
吹眼睛
真爱
老公老公我爱你
死了都要爱
太美丽
曹操
那一夜
my love
一万个理由
反转地球
今天你要嫁给我
yesterday once more
爸爸妈妈
发光体
爱我别走
夜曲
我很想爱他
We will rock you
神话
不得不爱
发如雪
为什么相爱的人不能在一起
蝴蝶
王子变青蛙
雨夜
香水有毒
秋天不回来
香飘飘
你是我的玫瑰花
求佛
千里之外
狼爱上羊
天下无双
上海滩
寻找李慧珍
不怕不怕
健康快乐动起来
号码
我们都是好孩子
对不起我的最爱
老婆老婆我爱你
爱上你这样的女人
qq爱
大城小爱
认真的雪
隐形的翅膀
光芒
god is a girl
舞娘
好姑娘
吹眼睛
真爱
老公老公我爱你
死了都要爱
太美丽
曹操
那一夜
my love
一万个理由
反转地球
今天你要嫁给我
yesterday once more
爸爸妈妈
发光体
爱我别走
夜曲
我很想爱他
We will rock you
神话
不得不爱
发如雪
为什么相爱的人不能在一起
蝴蝶
王子变青蛙
雨夜
香水有毒
秋天不回来
香飘飘
你是我的玫瑰花
求佛
千里之外
狼爱上羊
天下无双
上海滩
寻找李慧珍
不怕不怕
健康快乐动起来
号码
我们都是好孩子
对不起我的最爱
老婆老婆我爱你
爱上你这样的女人
qq爱
大城小爱
认真的雪
隐形的翅膀
光芒
god is a girl
舞娘
好姑娘
吹眼睛
真爱
老公老公我爱你
死了都要爱
太美丽
曹操
那一夜
my love
一万个理由
反转地球
今天你要嫁给我
yesterday once more
爸爸妈妈
发光体
爱我别走
夜曲
我很想爱他
We will rock you
神话
不得不爱
发如雪
为什么相爱的人不能在一起
蝴蝶
王子变青蛙
雨夜
香水有毒
秋天不回来
香飘飘
你是我的玫瑰花
求佛
千里之外
狼爱上羊
天下无双
上海滩
寻找李慧珍
不怕不怕
健康快乐动起来
号码
我们都是好孩子
对不起我的最爱
老婆老婆我爱你
爱上你这样的女人
qq爱
大城小爱
认真的雪
隐形的翅膀
光芒
god is a girl
舞娘
好姑娘
吹眼睛
真爱
老公老公我爱你
死了都要爱
太美丽
曹操
那一夜
my love
一万个理由
反转地球
今天你要嫁给我
yesterday once more
爸爸妈妈
发光体
爱我别走
夜曲
我很想爱他
We will rock you
神话
不得不爱
发如雪
为什么相爱的人不能在一起
蝴蝶
王子变青蛙
雨夜
一万个理由
狼爱上羊
那一夜
不要再来伤害我
大城小爱
寂寞沙洲冷
完美世界
爸爸妈妈
生日礼物
功夫
情人
不得不爱
发如雪
一眼万年
希望
第一次爱的人
夜曲
一万个理由
狼爱上羊
那一夜
不要再来伤害我
大城小爱
寂寞沙洲冷
完美世界
爸爸妈妈
生日礼物
功夫
情人
不得不爱
发如雪
一眼万年
希望
第一次爱的人
夜曲
一万个理由
狼爱上羊
那一夜
不要再来伤害我
大城小爱
寂寞沙洲冷
完美世界
爸爸妈妈
生日礼物
功夫
情人
不得不爱
发如雪
一眼万年
希望
第一次爱的人
夜曲
香水有毒
秋天不回来
求佛
香飘飘
我们都是好孩子
不怕不怕
不要再来伤害我
天下无双
狼爱上羊
老公老公我爱你
寻找李慧珍
god is a girl
大城小爱
舞娘
老婆老婆我爱你
曹操
qq爱
约定
那一夜
隐形的翅膀
光芒
飞行部落
真爱
冰菊舞
死了都要爱
一万个理由
反转地球
my love
好姑娘
爱我别走
我不后悔
飞舞
yesterday once more
王子变青蛙
We will rock you
不得不爱
夜曲
发如雪
爸爸妈妈
爱我就别伤害我
我很想爱他
桃花朵朵开
神话
笔记
吉祥三宝
不想长大
暧昧
迷魂计
花田错

Posted by: werew | Sep 27, 2006 2:19:19 AM

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