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July 28, 2005

The Long-Term Politics of Health Care (Or Why We Shouldn't Compromise)

Rick Perlstein has written the sort of column I wish more progressives would write, arguing that the foundation of a new Democratic majority is universal health care.

Excellent.

No regular readers will be surprised to see me agreeing with that statement.  But what's under it also deserves some consideration.  If you had to list the government programs Republicans couldn't touch, what would you say? 

Social Security, certainly.  Medicare too.  Don't fuck with Medicare.  I wouldn't relish being the Republican who tries to eliminate unemployment insurance.  But that's really it.  Medicaid survives more on being mixed-up with Medicare than on any particular concern for the poor.  Welfare, well, you saw what happened to welfare.

There's a lesson here, and it's not hard.  Broad-based entitlement programs are good for Democrats.  Narrow ones aren't.  Welfare, Medicaid -- those are for the poor.  I won't need them.  I work hard and the boss likes me.  I'll be fine.  But Social Security?  That's mine.  Medicare -- that too.  Unemployment insurance?  Well, the company could go out of business.  And so forth.

This is the one space where I think the DLC is truly dangerous to the long-term health of the party.  They don't like entitlements.  I mean real entitlements.  They're wonks.  They've got good plans that solve exactly the problem they're supposed to solve and don't go a step further.  They subsidize, harness market forces, and generally help the uninsured while smoothing out the rest of the system.  That may, someday, pass into legislation, and it'd be a happy day indeed.  But the Democratic party would wake up no different.  The government wouldn't be providing anything, it'd just be helping some folks pay for it.  And in that way, it'd be another Medicaid or welfare program; good enough, but not safe, not strong, and not the sort of thing that produces more Democrats.

The DLC puts out plans that'll win tomorrow's election.  Clinton, indeed, is the perfect example.  He won the 1996 race on a wave and miniscule proposals, all good examples of government doing positive things, but none that were remembered for more than a few days.  None that would help us win the next election, or the election after that, or the one following.  The DLC gives a candidate ammo to sound competent and bipartisan in a debate, but they do nothing to strengthen the progressive project, because nothing they offer will be remembered the morning after it's passed.

Health care, alone among all other issues on the horizon, can be different.  It's one place where not only the government can provide a service, but in a perfect world, it would be providing that service.  Not because it's politically best, though it is, but because government-provided health care is better, cheaper, stronger.  It reaches more people, does more things, and offers more security.  It makes our businesses more competitive and frees our workers to move around.  It'd be great for the party, yes, but it'd also be an enormous boost for the country.

The DLC's plan doesn't do that.  Incremental reform won't achieve that.  And that's why Democrats shouldn't support it.  In his post, Matt makes the point that working towards the long-term can mean sacrifices in the short-term.  He's right.  CAP, the PPI, and many others have offered clever plans that could, with a bit of luck and timing, pass in the current environment.  But the reason they could pass if that they don't rock the boat.  They play by conservative rules to achieve liberal ends.  And while that may be good for getting policy passed, you don't win elections by validating your opponent's philosophy as fact.  Perlstein writes:

It is the duty of every generation of Democrats to produce new geese to lay 70 years of golden eggs. It is the only way our party has grown—as Bill Kristol puts it, by reviving the reputation of the Democrats as the generous protector of middle-class interests.

Health care is our golden goose and incremental plans are the equivalent of killing it for dinner.  Sure, you eat that night, but three days later, you're no better off.  When evaluating plans, a government provided component should be the absolute minimum required for support.  And I'm not talking a FEHBP-style menu, I mean real government plans that folks can buy into, even if they have to coexist with private plans (like in Leif Wellington Haase's proposal).

The government should provide health insurance.  The government should guarantee health insurance.  It should do it because that's the right thing to do, because it'll give workers more freedom to move around, because it'll control costs, because it'll cover everybody, and because, for this job, government-involvement is the best way to handle it.

I wrote a few weeks ago that this isn't about covering the uninsured.  If we want to do that, increase the size of Medicaid and slap down an insurance mandate -- it's easily doable.  This is about validating our vision of government.  On health care, we're right and they're wrong.  The public sector is right and the private sector is wrong.  We can't be afraid to say that.  We can't be afraid to fight for that.  And we can't settle for a plan that validates our ends but rejects our means.  Validating government is the end because it's the best way to accomplish this.  It's also, incidentally, the only way to redeem the Democratic party.

July 28, 2005 in Health Care | Permalink

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Comments

Right on, this idea ties into a lot of other things as well, but obviously health care is the big, big, big one. I'm thinking about communication infrastructure in less populous areas and other areas where government is the best and cheapest way to get things done.

After 9/11 the TSA (government) took over all screening at airports. Private screening businesses were mute, or at least not heard. We needed the government to do the project. Same goes for health care. If people figure out that it is, indeed, A HUGE PROBLEM, government intervention will be welcomed, not shunned. Dems need to start making lists of all the great things that government has done, and done it because only government can do it. Health care is the next thing to be done, and people will embrace it once they understand the stakes. Can you imagine a world without the FDIC or Social Security? It existed, it was a bad world. Our current health care system is also a bad world, time to scrap it and have the government not only pay for it, but run it, because it will be better. I truly believe that, and I think more and more folks will eventually.

Good government is good, and it is not the same as socialism. It is about making sure that our magical (or tragic, take your pick) capitalisitic society operates upon a solid base that provides a floor below which no one will fall, a floor that (in the long term) constantly rises. That is what being a community/society/nation is all about.

Posted by: abjectfunk | Jul 28, 2005 8:17:23 PM

1. Here's a frame-up for you. If a Republican says "the market should handle X", when the numbers say that the American market handling X is more expensive than the French (say) government handling it, accuse her of claiming that American civil servants are less competent than French ones.

2. You didn't mention minimum wage. It's taken for granted now, but my grandmother tells me that she became a lifelong Democrat after a little change made in Washington meant that she got two more dollars a week (or some crazy number), and had the Democrats to thank.

Posted by: Allen K. | Jul 28, 2005 8:20:44 PM

Ezra: Medicaid survives more on being mixed-up with Medicare than on any particular concern for the poor.

I think you underestimate the political bandwidth of Medicaid - but not for the uninsured poor.

The real power of Medicaid is in provision for long term care for the frail elderly, usually in nursing homes. This is really a middle class program, and every politician knows it.

Middle class families cannot afford the costs of resident care for their mothers and fathers, although the nursing homes care substantially more for the long-living females since the men die off earlier.

Nursing home care costs about $5,000 a month on average. Families facing this problem advise their elderly to spend down the assets by various means, so that their elders are eligible for Medicaid. It is a huge business nationwide, and very expensive.

Although long-term insurance for elderly exists, it is unaffordable unless the beneficiaries begin the payments in their 40's or 50's. By their 70's, it really isn't an option with private insurance.

Yes, it is an entitlement, but it is viewed very differently than caring for the unhealthy poor in working-age brackets.

Medicaid for the elderly also fits your test: where not only the government can provide a service, but in a perfect world, it would be providing that service. . Medicaid DOES provide this service, although the states vary in the quality of the service provided, since the states pay a big piece of the cost.

Take at look at the stats and I'll think you will find that this program meets another test of yours:
Broad-based entitlement programs are good for Democrats.

I enthusiatically agree with your overall points on this, but dispute this statement:

In his post, Matt makes the point that working towards the long-term can mean sacrifices in the short-term. He's right.

I responded to Matt's post that your link to at his blog. In short, I doubt any Dem suffer today if he/she and their party was saying:

Guaranteed. Health Insurance. For All.

Posted by: JimPortlandOR | Jul 28, 2005 9:17:52 PM

It appears that the main thrust of the posts (and positive comments) of the last few days is how to regain power. It has centered around "what will work" and not the merits of the strategy posited. It has vaulted from novel 'framing' of current issues to outright buying of votes as in this post with entitlements to the middle class. The overall theory of government is never considered and how attaining short term goals fits into that theory or how it might affect long term issues.
Attain power is the drumberat...power at the expense of everything and everyone else. If *I* can see this....so can the voters, and maybe *THAT* is the real problem for the left.

Posted by: Robert Zimmerman | Jul 28, 2005 10:34:55 PM

I’m sorry but this: “government-provided health care is better, cheaper, stronger.” is utter and complete bullshit. Can you provide ONE example where this is true? Canada? Hardly. The Soviet Union? Anyone remember that they were the only country with declining life spans before their collapse?

Canada, Japan and the Soviet Union all experienced declining professionals in the healthcare profession. There are nearly 1 million people in Ontario without a primary care physician because there are not enough doctors to serve the population. No one wants to be a doctor.

Wait time for care in Canda is outrageous. The average wait between a referral and being seen by a specialty doc is over 4 MONTHS. The wait then to get treatment is another 3 MONTHS. Cancer patients come to the US because their waits are over a month. The wait is seven months for eye care and eight months for orthopedic surgery. The worse patients in Canada come to the US for treatment because they are 1 to 2 generations behind the US in advanced medical techology.

Where is there a working example that government provided healthcare is better, cheaper and stronger?

Posted by: Alan Carpenter | Jul 28, 2005 10:44:03 PM

Let's see if I can close the open-ended italics tag...

Posted by: Chris Woods | Jul 28, 2005 10:54:36 PM

It worked.

Posted by: Chris Woods | Jul 28, 2005 10:55:21 PM

Ezra, what you hold up as a strategic reason for wanting national healthcare is actually one of the reasons why such a scheme is as dangerous as it is. As Nobel-prize winning economist Friederich Hayek wrote in his book, “The Constitution of Liberty:”

“One of the strongest arguments against them is, indeed, that their introduction is the kind of politically irrevocable measure that will have to be continued, whether it proves a mistake or not.”

Although you would probably deny that such a scheme would be a mistake, it is still conceivable that it would be, in which case we’re stuck with it. This may not be a decisive argument against universal state-sponsored health care, but it should at least indicate that what you find a putative benefit is actually to be considered a great weakness.

But if this argument isn’t decisive, there are a myriad other that are. First, is the pragmatic one: as Alan Carpenter notes, these schemes simply aren’t efficient, and lead to a stagnation in levels of medical treatment and knowledge. It also creates perverse incentives: for example, the Canadian man that recently got himself arrested in order to secure a medical procedure for himself. Also, the high cost of our health care is more related to the generousness of our tort system (an excellent, informative link, that one), rather than due to the cold vagaries of capitalism.

Also, do you really want to put the control of something as intimate as your health into the hands of the state? Besides being an inherent and paternalistic reduction of liberty, this will lead, inevitably, to further reductions of liberty for reasons of “efficiency” or “cost.” Universalizing health care makes, what would usually be the private state of other people’s help, into MY business.

If I’m going to be paying for other people’s health care, I will want to start legislating against certain “dangerous” or “unhealthy” behaviors. Liberals have already started doing this. For example, Paul Krugman recently wrote about restricting people’s right to eat certain “unhealthy” foods. Musing about a justification that would convince people to regulate unhealthy foods, Krugman writes:

"One answer is to focus on the financial costs of obesity, and the fact that many of these costs fall on taxpayers and on the general insurance-buying public, rather than on the obese individuals themselves. [...]

It is more important, however, to emphasize that there are situations in which "free to choose" is all wrong and that this is one of them."

If we had a universal healthcare scheme such calls for regulating certain behaviors deemed “unhealthy” or even “risky” would increase. Even if you agree that unhealthy foods should be taxed are illegalized, the logic behind this is still dangerous to our freedoms. Did you know in France you have to wear a speedo-type swimming suit at public pools because other types of suits are considered unsanitary? A

nd what if some people decided that they didn’t like paying for people’s expensive AIDS treatments, and so they tried to regulate certain sex acts (of course such a thing would seem to be unconstitutional…but with the fashionable idea of the “living constitution” who’s to say what will be a right, and what won’t, in five to ten years?).

Or how about this guy in England (http://timworstall.typepad.com/timworstall/2005/07/starvation_its_.html), who is being told that medical authorities will make the decision for him whether he will live or die, even though he is capable?

These are just a taste of the reasons why a universal health care scheme would be dangerous to our liberties and an economically detrimental development.

Posted by: Grant | Jul 29, 2005 12:38:09 AM

In answer to Alan Carpenter:
Health care in Great Britain, which is mainly government-provided, is much cheaper overall than in the US and gets better results. Public spending is about the same - 5.9% of GDP - but UK private spending is much lower because the public service is universal. In common with most advanced countries, Great Britain has higher life expectancy and lower infant mortality than the United States (ie health outcomes are better), though of course not all of this is the result of the inadequacies of the US health care system - for example, America's high poverty rate is also a contributory factor.

The principal defect of the US system is of course the high prices, which reduce access to health care. Americans may get well-treated if they can afford to visit a doctor, but they do so less often, and so their overall health suffers. The system may be somewhat quicker for those that can afford it; but it is unquestionably worse for those that cannot; and overall it is difficult to disagree with the evidence that it provides worse outcomes at higher costs than does the public health system in the United Kingdom.

How the United States chooses to arrange its health services is a matter for Americans to decide; but do not do so on the basis of a misrepresentation or misunderstanding of the costs and benefits of other countries' systems. Cross-national surveys on the satisfaction of citizens with their health system, Canada and the European nations have consistently scored higher marks than has the U.S. system. Those systems are much less expensive, and produce consistently better outcomes.

Posted by: Owen Barder | Jul 29, 2005 7:48:12 AM

It seems to me that more health care will be desired than we can afford. If that is true, than something will have to ration health care.

Right now, money is what rations health care. I am fully willing to agree that money is a terrible thing to use for this. Problem is, I think all the other options are worse.

Beyond that, I have deep concerns that Government controled health care (and if the Government pays for it, you can bet the government will control it) will not be ammenable to technological innovation. I theorize that other countries a greatly able to avoid this cost by the technological innovation that is fueled by the American market. If we take this away, serious problems could result.

Bottom line is, I am more interested in health care becoming better (and I am convinced that over time it becomes better for all segments of society) than I am with it being equal. I am deeply skeptical that it can do both at once.

That said, I am not happy with our current system and am looking for alternatives. My general tendancy is to free up, rather than further regulate, the medical marketplace. I think that a lot of the problems we have with affordable medical care is a result of regulation and a more free market would correct many (perhaps most) of those issues.

Posted by: Dave Justus | Jul 29, 2005 10:00:02 AM

Right now, money is what rations health care. I am fully willing to agree that money is a terrible thing to use for this. Problem is, I think all the other options are worse.

Right on the money, Dave. The economy of health care is one of unlimited demands and limited resources. Currently, the standard is nothing is too good for anyone, no hospital stay is too expensive and no doctors' fees too high. With a government controlled system, my fear is that some procedures will be unavailable at any cost. The elderly may be denied procedures after a certain age, even for those who can afford it in an effort to "spend" our healthcare resources more wisely, etc. It isn't pretty. Of course, the liberals here would contend that in this utopian dream, nobody would be denied anything, which means that there are absolutely no controls whatsoever and then see what happens to the cost!
That being said, I'm not surprised that the far left is pushing for this. It is a huge government program and as i stated earlier, it's about buying votes from the middle class. It's all about regaining power and nothing else.

Posted by: Robert Zimmerman | Jul 29, 2005 10:55:48 AM

I think that Ezra and others are genuinely convinced that government health care is good for the nation. I may disagree with them as to what the probable results of such a thing would be, and what costs would occur, but I have no reason to suspect their motives.

Posted by: Dave Justus | Jul 29, 2005 11:01:38 AM

"I’m sorry but this: “government-provided health care is better, cheaper, stronger.” is utter and complete bullshit. Can you provide ONE example where this is true? Canada? Hardly. The Soviet Union? Anyone remember that they were the only country with declining life spans before their collapse?"

Certainly. Canada. France. England. Germany. Japan. See, here's the thing: within the data based health care community, there is no disagreement whatsoever that our health system is woefully bad. By that I mean we have higher spending and worse health outcomes than anyone else. We pay much more for much less. Our administrative costs are 300% higher than Canada's...per capita. You walked in here with a huge, and totally wrong, bias. Now maybe you can learn something.

Posted by: Ezra Klein | Jul 29, 2005 11:32:50 AM

Ezra, you invoke France as the model system. In France in 2003 over 10,000 people died from the heat wave. I don’t know whether their health care system is complicit in this, but it seems that the myriad flaws in French society stem at least in part from their policies which restrict economic freedom and stifle market influences. For example, the rise of Le Pen and the French far right are in part because of rising xenophobia. Rising xenophobia, in turn, is often an unintended consequence of universal health care schemes. When one has to fund other people’s health care, one becomes angered by the presence of foreign “leeches.”

In my last comment above, I forgot a link explaining why America’s costs are higher than others, and also why our healthcare is seemingly worse. Here it is: http://www.janegalt.net/blog/archives/004693.html. That post makes two points: one, our prices are high because of our generous tort system. Also, comparing levels of health across nations is misleading, because our infant mortality rate is skewed because we take greater efforts to save months-premature babies. That, and Americans just lead a generally less healthy lifestyle: we walk less, eat more, unhealthy foods, and just generally sit around on our asses.

That said, even if a universal health care scheme proved to be more efficient I would still oppose it. Efficiency is not a sufficient justification for the abridgement of liberty.

Posted by: GrantR | Jul 29, 2005 12:19:56 PM

Well, you should look. It isn't. The heat wave deaths have to do with isolated elderly in rural areas and unseasonal temperatures (thanks global warming) that citizens weren't prepared for. In America last year, estimates are that between 98,000 and 195,000 died from medical error. That doesn't include the 42 million uninsured, the 30 million underinsured, and all that happens to them.

"Rising xenophobia, in turn, is often an unintended consequence of universal health care schemes. When one has to fund other people’s health care, one becomes angered by the presence of foreign “leeches.”"

This makes *no* sense. Americans feel that way. members of European social welfare states don't generally resent the use of social services. Their xenophobia comes from elsewhere. And, incidentally, Le Pen was a quirk of the electoral system where 11 candidates split the vote.

Now we got some meat. The tort stuff is bullshit. A Health Affairs study -- not opinion, but study -- debunks it here. Really, I can't overemphasize what total bullshit it is. Please read the link. Our entire malpractice system, all of it, payouts and insurance costs and legal fees, accounts for less than one half of one percent of spending. And it's not rising quickly.

As for our unhealthy friends, true enough. But it also comes because the large numbers of un and underinsured folk don't go see doctors when problems are manageable and instead let them ballon to be catastrophic.

As for opposing universal health no grounds of liberty, I have no idea what sort of liberty you think will be abrogated (the liberty to be uninsured, maybe?) but to each their own.

Posted by: Ezra Klein | Jul 29, 2005 12:37:21 PM

As for opposing universal health no grounds of liberty, I have no idea what sort of liberty you think will be abrogated (the liberty to be uninsured, maybe?) but to each their own.

Give me liberty or give me... health insurance?

Posted by: TJ | Jul 29, 2005 12:45:06 PM

That was the original formulation, but Patrick Henry thought it made him sound like kind of a douche.

Posted by: Ezra Klein | Jul 29, 2005 1:12:06 PM

Grant, you already DO pay for other people's health care! First, you pay for medicaid and medicare through your taxes. Second, when you pay your premiums to your insurance company, the money is pooled. It's not like your payments are isolated and used to cover ONLY your care. The money is spread around to reduce overall risk.

Arguing that the French health system is to blame because people died during a heat wave is just dishonest! Would you blame Pheonix's healthcare system because around 30 homeless have died in the last month from the heat? Or should we blame the government for letting there be homeless? Come back when you can find some statistical evidence to back up your arguments.

And to all those arguing about rationing, we already ration here. It's just not called that. We ration by pricing people out of the system. We ration by waiting months to get appointments with specialists. We ration by having huge quality gaps. Our 300% higher overhead costs from having a fractured system make it so millions of people can't get care.

Posted by: Kate | Jul 29, 2005 2:40:43 PM

It’s not that health care alone causes xenophobia, it’s just that it, and all other entitlements, contribute to the hatred that many have for immigrants. You say that their xenophobia comes from elsewhere, and indeed some of it probably does. I only posit that the rise in entitlements leads people to feel anger toward those they perceive as free riders.

And it’s not just Le Pen—the far right is on the rise throughout all of Europe in response to immigration and the strain it places on welfare states.

As for universal health care infringing on liberty—well, the extent depends on the plan you use, but any “universal” plan that coerces membership is an infringement on my liberty not to be a member of it. My freedom of association, my freedom to dispose of my income as I wish, my freedom to seek out medical care on my own.

How about this: anyone that wants to be part of your health care scheme can join it of their own volition. That’s fine with me. But when you use the apparatus of the state to coerce membership and funds for it, that is a violation of liberty.

“the liberty to be uninsured?” No, the liberty to NOT be coerced into your plan. Again, I have nothing against your plan, insofar as it doesn’t involve me in any aspect of which I don’t choose, i.e. insofar as it doesn’t violate my liberty.

“Second, when you pay your premiums to your insurance company, the money is pooled.” Yes, but those plans I can join of my own volition. That is compatible with freedom.

And there is also the aspect of liberty I mention in my first comment, where universal healthcare can, and will, be used as justification for further infringements on my liberty to undergo risky activities, such as smoking, eating a big mac, or whatever.

When our health, which should be the most intimate of concerns, is made to be a concern of every other citizen, don’t be surprised when those citizens start telling others how to run their lives. If they’re paying for medical procedures, they’re going to want a say in how other people lead their lives. It’s that simple.

Universal health care is an inherent restriction of liberty, and will lead to even more restrictions. Now, whether you hold liberty to be the highest value, as I do, is another matter altogether. But don't argue it doesn't infringe upon liberty; it does.

And,yeah, the French heat wave was possibly a lazy, reflexive remark on my part. I still can't believe that individuals would let their parents die in that manner. Many wouldn't even cut short their vacations to see to their folks bodies. But that doesn't make it relevant to this discussion.

Posted by: GrantR | Jul 29, 2005 3:07:16 PM

One thing I have been wondering Ezra, and I would be interested if you have any facts on this, I will accept that we spend more for our Health Care. I expect though that American's spend more for just about everything. We are richer than most other nations.

How does out spending on other areas, housing, entertainment, etc. compare with other countries? If for example, we spend twice as much as France on housing, but only 1.5 times as much on Health Care you might conclude we are getting a bargain.

Posted by: Dave Justus | Jul 29, 2005 3:49:50 PM

Grant, you're just wrong. Utterly and frustratingly wrong.

"the rise in entitlements leads people to feel anger toward those they perceive as free riders."

First off, it's sort of shocking, but few people begrudge sick people medical care. Their response is more, "man, I'm so glad I don't have cancer. That must suck."

Secondly, even if this were true, it doesn't apply to what we're proposing. Today, poor people have Medicaid. Well-off people have private insurance. And the folks in the middle, the ones who have jobs and pay taxes but who can't afford insurance and are too "wealthy" to qualify for Medicaid? Those are the uninsured. How will getting these people insurance make them any more upset at the folks on Medicaid than they are in our current system? If anything, it will make them LESS pissed off.

"Any “universal” plan that coerces membership is an infringement on my liberty not to be a member of it. My freedom of association, my freedom to dispose of my income as I wish, my freedom to seek out medical care on my own...Universal health care is an inherent restriction of liberty..."

What are you talking about? Nobody's making you go to the doctor (or, um, "associate" with him, or whatever the hell you mean). Also, what do you mean by "the freedom to seek out medical care on my own?" Health care providers are licensed and regulated. If you want to pay a shaman $100 bucks to cure you mystically, that's your business--universal healthcare doesn't make it any more illegal to practice medicine without a license than does our current system.

However, what universal health insurance does do is make it possible for you to see ANY doctor, if you so choose. Why being able to see ANY doctor makes you less free than today, where your insurance company (and/or your employer) picks what hospitals you can and can't go to and what physicians you can and can't see is beyond me.

But yeah, we are taxing you. We also make you wear pants when you leave the house, and obey traffic laws when you drive. It turns out that you're not perfectly free. Welcome to being a grownup in modern society. If you don't like taxes, move to Haiti. There's no police or organized goverment and the place is run by violent thugs, but I hear the tax regime is FABULOUS and you aren't oppressed by free healthcare.

"universal healthcare can, and will, be used as justification for further infringements on my liberty to undergo risky activities, such as smoking, eating a big mac, or whatever...When our health, which should be the most intimate of concerns, is made to be a concern of every other citizen, don’t be surprised when those citizens start telling others how to run their lives."

Newsflash: People don't need an excuse to infringe on the most intimate of your concerns, and you're a sucker if you give up what you need because you're afraid it might give bullies the right to beat up on you.

There's politicians today who want to take away my right to birth control because it's "damaging to women." These kinds of people don't need an excuse, and I'm not going to give up access to healthcare in order to preserve some academic argument you'd like to use in order to preserve your liberty. If you want to eat a big mac, then you've got to figure out a way to protect your right to a big mac without letting poor people die in the streets. We're a clever nation, I know we can figure this out!

Posted by: theorajones | Jul 29, 2005 5:02:56 PM

Great response, Theora. And I'll back her up here: the French have much more medical liberty than we do. Any doctor, any specialist, any time, no gatekeepers. You can't walk in now and see my doctor unless you have my health insurance. And, given the choice between buying any health insurance but being restricted in doctors and having guaranteed health insurance with no restrictions on doctors, well, you know where I'd go.

And Dave, I don't understand what you're asking here. What do health costs and outcomes have to do with housing? This is per capita stuff: we spend $5,267 per person (even with our rolls of uninsured), 53% more than any other nation. All that, and we have worse health outcomes and 45 million with insurance. This isn't a bargain in any world.

Posted by: Ezra Klein | Jul 29, 2005 5:38:17 PM

In answer to Dave's question, every comparison of costs that I can find show that, with the exception of NYC, living in US cities is generally less expensive than in European cities. But, as Ezra has pointed out, health care costs far more. Even health care in a small American city will cost more, far more.

A new comparison of heart surgery performed in the US and Canada was just released. The bad news: Heart surgery costs twice as much in the US as it does in Canada. The good news: We get better outcomes in the US.

Naaahhhh! Just kidding. The bad news is that the US spends twice as much and gets exactly the same outcomes as Canada. Guess those Canadians are just more efficient than us wasteful Americans.

"The in-hospital cost of CABG [Coronary Artery Bypass Graft] in the United States is substantially higher than in Canada. This difference is due to higher direct and overhead costs in US hospitals, is not explained by demographic or clinical differences, and does not lead to superior clinical outcomes."

Outcomes and Cost of Coronary Artery Bypass Graft Surgery in the United States and Canada

Posted by: SteveH | Jul 29, 2005 6:15:23 PM

“First off, it's sort of shocking, but few people begrudge sick people medical care. Their response is more, "man, I'm so glad I don't have cancer. That must suck."”

That’s a caricature of my view. I’m not saying, specifically, that a person looks at one individual case and is enraged by that case. I am merely pointing out that the more money people are required to spend on the well-being of others leads to resentment towards those others, ESPECIALLY when those others are separated by a racial or cultural divide (i.e. are immigrants, who are perceived as an “other”) and are not paying their “fair share,” i.e., they are perceived, not in individual cases (the poor cancer kid) but, rather as a group, as being a drain on society. I don’t see why this is controversial, or hard to understand. People always resent the free-rider. You might think it a noble cause, and it might be, but people care most about their pocketbook, and they resent those that they perceive as leeches.

“What are you talking about? Nobody's making you go to the doctor (or, um, "associate" with him, or whatever the hell you mean).”

No, but you are forcing me to adhere to one plan for health insurance, which I may not want to adhere to. You are restricting my choice of health care alternatives, forcing me to choose the one that you advocate. Here is the test of freedom: make membership optional. Those that want to be a part of it can fund it. Leave the others alone. That is freedom. That is liberty.

“Also, what do you mean by "the freedom to seek out medical care on my own?" Health care providers are licensed and regulated.”

That’s particularly disturbing reasoning, in my opinion. You use the fact that health care providers are already licensed and regulated to justify FURTHER regulation.

“However, what universal health insurance does do is make it possible for you to see ANY doctor, if you so choose. Why being able to see ANY doctor makes you less free than today, where your insurance company (and/or your employer) picks what hospitals you can and can't go to and what physicians you can and can't see is beyond me.”

Because I am being coerced into a single universal plan that I don’t agree with. How about this, you let whoever wants to, to join your plan? How about that? Let people choose freely whether they want to be a part of your little plan? I ask only that you not use the monopoly of force in the possession of the state to enforce your specific plan for health care coverage—let people choose on they’re own. If you’re plan is as great as you think it is, then people won’t hesitate to join. And others that don’t like it can be left on their own. Such is freedom. Freedom is freedom to choose even what others might not think is good for you.

If enough people like a plan like yours, you can organize it privately. Just don’t force it upon me and others via the State. That’s all I ask. Just don’t be a despot, even a democratic one.

“But yeah, we are taxing you. We also make you wear pants when you leave the house, and obey traffic laws when you drive. It turns out that you're not perfectly free. Welcome to being a grownup in modern society.”

I don’t deny that the state has legitimate functions for which it may tax, and I do not hold that I am perfectly free. But the fact that I am not perfectly free should not be used as justification for FURTHER reducing my freedom. That, again, is a particularly perverse and troubling form of reasoning. I can also live without the patronizing tone of voice, thank you.

“If you don't like taxes, move to Haiti. There's no police or organized goverment and the place is run by violent thugs, but I hear the tax regime is FABULOUS and you aren't oppressed by free healthcare.”

Again, I don’t disagree with all taxation in that I believe in a “night watchman” level of governance, but the fact that some taxation is necessary for the operation of society is NOT sufficient justification for the continued expansion of taxation and the reach of government into every facet of society. My health is private, and it should stay that way.

“Newsflash: People don't need an excuse to infringe on the most intimate of your concerns, and you're a sucker if you give up what you need because you're afraid it might give bullies the right to beat up on you.”

People don’t need an excuse, but they will gladly take one, and the excuse of “efficiency” DOES go a ways toward convincing people to restrict certain freedoms. Also, “efficiency” is not exactly an “excuse”—it’s also a “reason.” Unless you believe people act in a completely random way, then you can see that “reasons” such as this DO effect people’s behavior. “Efficiency” might be a good enough “reason” for many formerly freedom-loving people to give up additional freedoms. Did you read that Krugman column? Isn’t that frightening? And calls like that would increase ten-fold if the health of others, heretofore a largely (although definitely not completely) private affair, was made into a public affair.

“There's politicians today who want to take away my right to birth control because it's "damaging to women." These kinds of people don't need an excuse, and I'm not going to give up access to healthcare in order to preserve some academic argument you'd like to use in order to preserve your liberty.”

Again, you confuse “excuses” with “reasons” or “justifications.” And this isn’t some ivory tower argument (and I’m definitely no academic, as my overall poor argumentation skills probably evidence—just a fan of liberty). This is a pragmatic, slippery slope argument about, in my opinion, what already is happening, and what will only be made worse if, again, the private concern of someone’s health is made public.

“If you want to eat a big mac, then you've got to figure out a way to protect your right to a big mac without letting poor people die in the streets. We're a clever nation, I know we can figure this out!”

People dying in the streets? Where do you live, Somalia? I have never, personally, seen someone die in the streets, and I don’t exactly live in the ritziest neighborhood. And, if you are so concerned with these people why don’t you donate money and act privately, rather than using the coercive apparatus of the state? If you believe in liberty, then proper action should, indeed MUST, be undertaken privately.

And while I can see while you might disagree with the views above, I don’t see why you cannot comprehend them. Admittedly, I am not the best writer, so if you are interested in a better exposition of the cause of liberty I recommend Frederic Bastiat’s “The Law” or anything by Milton Friedman, Freidrich Hayek or Ludwig von Mises.

Posted by: GrantR | Jul 29, 2005 6:22:31 PM

Ezra:

"And, given the choice between buying any health insurance but being restricted in doctors and having guaranteed health insurance with no restrictions on doctors, well, you know where I'd go."

Yes, we know where you'd go. I ask only that you don't force others to choose that way too. Freedom, man, its for everyone.

Posted by: GrantR | Jul 29, 2005 6:37:11 PM

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