Ezra Klein: Learn, Damn You Learn!

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June 24, 2005

Learn, Damn You Learn!

Let me state this a bit more clearly: This whole Rove thing is a trap intended to paint Democrats as whiny hippies. If we respond by getting all pissed off and indignant, this will happen. Or we'll let them invade another country just to prove we're not hippies.

First, there is a proposal to withdraw from Iraq from Kucinich among others. Then Durbin says the word “detainee” in a way that does not express complete contempt. Now we are just continuing the narrative and allowing the Republicans to shift the public discourse back to the War on Terrah’. By whining about this we are just giving the media an excuse to do a news cycle about “Who is really more dedicated to giving money away to defense contractors: Democrats or Republicans?” instead of Abramoff or the missing billions scandal. Because make no mistake, that is how it is being framed.

If this were a Democrat quote, the media would ask questions like “Doesn’t this undermine your base of support?” suggesting that it would undermine our base of support. But since it is a Republican, the narrative is about whiny liberal hippies, and so they ask “Democrats are asking you to retract your statements. Will you?” Might as well ask “Are the Democrats anything more then annoying flies to be swatted aside?” How about we talk about their corruption instead of falling into this trap and letting Rove paint us as a bunch of whiny sixties throw backs. M'kay?

Specimen: Whiny Sixties Throwback

-The Jew

June 24, 2005 | Permalink

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» On the Turd Blossom thing from Pandagon
I don't have much to say. Rove isn't a genius, but I'm sure that Bush worships him far more than Jesus Christ or someone like that. But he has a knack for coming up with political attacks that are hard... [Read More]

Tracked on Jun 24, 2005 6:44:32 PM

» Geese & Guttersnipes: some apologies just aren't from The Disenchanted Forest
Remember when you were a kid and some other kid said or did something less than nice to you (which was bad enough) and then his mom or dad dragged the kid over and to apologize to you? Remember how you pretty much knew the kid was lying on both count... [Read More]

Tracked on Jun 25, 2005 8:37:54 AM

Comments

I'd like to propose a new frame.

The Marty Herskowitz story and Paul O'Neill book and other sources support it.

Bush went to war for his personal glory.

And now people are dying as he's trying to salvage his reputation. They'll continue to die, on and on, until he somehow regains his honor with a "victory."

Which will happen never.

They tripled their power by personalizing the war with Bush as Top Gun hero.

Let's use the same facts with this new frame to bring him down. Eschew the policy details. Attack the persona.

It's all a quest for personal glory that the rest of us are paying for.

Posted by: Emphyrio | Jun 24, 2005 4:25:44 PM

The whiny Republicans certainly have a monopoly on righteous indignation. They can hurl the insults. They just can't take them. Instead of demanding apologies from those whom apology is an empty gesture because they have no ethics, character or decency, it would be wiser to simply repeat that they must be getting pretty desperate to be trying this tactic. And they are. Bush's polls are in the crapper and Congress is even worse. Lame duck does not even begin to describe how weak Bush has become. All of his policies and grandiose plans are dead on arrival. And their only recourse is to lash out.

Posted by: JTN | Jun 24, 2005 4:26:04 PM

Well stated. It is a set up that they have been preparing for for some time. Why do they spend so much effort fighting fellow Americans when they should be fighting Osama?

http://americablog.blogspot.com/2005/06/white-house-intentionally-had-rove.html

Posted by: sprocket | Jun 24, 2005 4:31:33 PM

It's all about distration and lies. When the headlines start looking particularly bad, they roll out a giant distraction to change the subject - not unlike the typical troll comment on a thread - designed to change the subject. Sometimes they even send two trolls. . .

Posted by: JTN | Jun 24, 2005 4:42:42 PM

Yep, it's about Osama. But how to get that into the newspaper coverage?

Posted by: theorajones | Jun 24, 2005 5:16:27 PM

Liberals, fight back! You'll look like wimps if you don't!

Liberals, don't fight back! You'll look like wimps if you do!

Christ, where's Admiral Ackbar when you need him?

Posted by: Jimmy Jazz | Jun 24, 2005 6:30:17 PM

Who is saying don't fight back? Fighting back is bringing up their corruption. As I said before, Rove says:

"Conservatives saw the savagery of 9/11 in the attacks and prepared for war. Liberals saw the savagery of the 9/11 attacks and wanted to prepare indictments and offer therapy and understanding for our attackers,"

To which we reply:

“Democrats saw the savagery of 9-11 in the attacks and immediatly started work to prevent future attacks. The Republicans saw the savagery of the 9-11 attacks and immediately tried to use our pain to get No-Bid contracts for their cronies.”

Not "Whaaa! Play fair! Say you're sorry or I'll tell!!!"

Posted by: TheJew | Jun 24, 2005 6:48:40 PM

The key is to whine in a non-whiny way. I suggest by beating the ever-living crap out of anyone who calls us hippies.

Posted by: Amanda Marcotte | Jun 24, 2005 7:11:53 PM

You can fight back without demanding an apology.

Ezra is right that if the shoe were on the other foot the media would be asking if this is undermining the Democratic base...but that's only because the GOP would be endlessly pushing that angle.

Instead of demanding worthless apologies, Democrats should openly SAY what we all know to be true...that this is what the GOP does when they don't know what else to do. There's an idea. Tell the public what we are all thinking.

Instead of getting hysterical, act disgusted. Instead of asking for an apology, wonder aloud why on Earth Bush relies on the advice of someone who is so out to lunch. In other words, don't give Rove (or Bush) an out? Would an apology be o.k.? Did Rove simply misspeak? I don't think so. So don't act like it an apology would be acceptable.

Posted by: space | Jun 24, 2005 7:24:43 PM

Not "Whaaa! Play fair! Say you're sorry or I'll tell!!!"

What a blatant mischaracterization that is. No one is demanding an apology because their feelings are hurt. The demand for an apology is meant to signify that, even by the low bar for civil discourse the Republicans have set, Rove didn't clear it, or really even try.

You don't portray the other side as the extremists they are by debating their paranoid, toxic talking points. You portray them as they are by dropping your jaw and saying, "Holy shit, can you believe what he just said?"

Posted by: kth | Jun 24, 2005 7:56:42 PM

Dude, wtf are you talking about? Karl's been hiding behind weasel words for the past five years; he finally got too arrogant to bother to hide any more. This isn't a trap. It's a massive screwup. All we have to do is keep Karl and DeLay in the spotlight until the next round of torture photos and videos is released, and we will finally be able to entrench the (correct) meme that these folks are a bunch of terrifying fascists.

Posted by: Kimmitt | Jun 24, 2005 9:36:26 PM

Of course Rove didn't "mispeak"; he said the plain truth. Haven't you guys noticed what a field day the conservative blogs are having with the Dems bizarre demands for an apology on this? They're hauling out the verbatim quotes, and long ones too. Public statements. It's all right there, in black and white.

As we all know, Rove simply stated the facts: When you kill Americans, the Dems lick your boots. They are whiny hippies. What have all of you been saying ever since September, 2001? You've been saying that we need to lick the Islamists' boots. You're saying it now.

You need to ask yourselves why you're ashamed of that. You need to ask yourselves why you get so uncomfortable when somebody simply reminds you of what you actually believe. Why does it hurt so much, dear lefties? Can you answer that question?

No one is demanding an apology because their feelings are hurt.

No, they're demanding an apology because they're slowly, ever so slowly, starting to notice that the American people aren't boot-lickers and don't vote for boot-lickers. Boot-lickers lose elections in this country, and that's why the Dems don't care to be characterized accurately.

The demand for an apology is meant to signify that, even by the low bar for civil discourse the Republicans have set...

Thanks for the belly-laugh. Have the Dems demonstrated a capacity to do anything but babble insane lies in a desperate attempt to sell out the national interest in the service of their own cheap partisan political interests? Well, gee, I guess they haven't, have they? Does the name "Dick Durbin" ring any bells? Dem rhetoric has gone completely psychotic. Pol Pot?! Jumping Jesus! Give me one credible example of high-profile Dems engaging in anything even resembling civil discourse in the past year, please.

If you want "civil discourse", try Rove, for one: Quoting your own public statements back at you is very precisely "civil discourse". Is that how low you dirtly little thieves have sunk, that you now think it's "unfair" to take public notice of the fact that you are precisely what you have always claimed to be?

If you hadn't believed that John Kerry would lick bin Laden's boots, you'd never have voted for him. Be honest, now.

That was a joke, of course. I know perfectly well you couldn't be honest if your lives depended on it.

I enjoy this noise about "lashing out", by the way. Has anybody on your side done anything but blind, irrational, hate-fuelled lashing out since this time last year? Nope. And all Rove is doing is simply reminding you of it. He's holding up a mirror. Don't like what you see? Tough shit. It's your own problem, not ours.

There's an idea. Tell the public what we are all thinking.

You've been telling the public what you've all been thinking for decades now: You thought the USSR was a bunch of nice guys who only wanted the best for everybody. You think Castro's a nice guy, so it's okay for him to keep all those political prisoners behind bars. You think Osama bin Laden is a nice guy, and he wouldn't have attacked us if we hadn't deserved it. You all thought Pol Pot was a nice guy until you couldn't kid even yourselves any more. Mao? Oh, the very nicest of guys. A real prince.

I'm not questioning your patriotism or anything (I know how you all burst into tears when anybody tells the truth about that), but it hasn't entirely escaped notice that you people will lick the boots of absolutely anybody who hates the US, however barbarous, tyrannical, and insane he may be, and you'll go to genuinely absurd lengths to make cheap excuses for his bad behavior. Of course you don't blindly hate the US in principle; you just happen to blindly hate the US in practice. To your addled little minds, that may seem like a meaningful distinction.

They can hurl the insults. They just can't take them. ...no ethics, character or decency...

I've never seen a better thumbnail sketch of the left in my life. Your only recourse in any argument is to throw a shrieking fit and scream "Hitler!", and then you go into weeping hysterics over somebody reading some perfectly accurate quotes out of the Congressional Record? Pathetic. Rove is more of a man than all of you snivelling assholes put together, and he's just some goddamn pudgy political mechanic for Christ's sake.

And you poor kids are whining about your "image". Forget your image. Fix the substance and the image will follow. Don't have any substance? Can't get any substance? Wouldn't know substance if it bit you in the ass? Can't even begin to imagine what substance might be like? Having trouble spelling it, even?

Tough shit, losers. Tough shit.

The difference between Rove and Durbin is that Durbin was lying and Rove told the truth. To sane, honest adults, the difference between lying and telling the truth is very important. I don't expect lefties to understand that. Hell, I don't expect lefties even to understand that there is a difference between lying and telling the truth.

Posted by: Heh | Jun 25, 2005 12:21:54 AM

------"“Doesn’t this undermine your base of support?”"

Cuz Howard Dean makes a moronic statement almost everytime he speaks. He badmouths Republicans every chance he gets, yet he is trying to win over voters, over half of which voted for the Republican president. Not to mention all the other Democrats who badmouth the President or Republicans. That is NOT a good way to expand the base.

You never hear about Ken Melman calling Democrats brain-dead, he hates Democrats, Democratic party is the white christian party (that one doesn't really transfer to Dems), that most Democrats never earned an honest days pay(that one translates remarkably well, you know, with all the Democrats on welfare and living off gov't handouts), and so on. Ken Melman is raising money(2 to 3 times what Dean is raising) and improving the mechanism of the Republican party. Most people do not know who Ken Melman is, which is the way it should be.

Howard Dean and the Democratic leadership are gradually chipping away at there own base. Most Americans don't get off on trashing other Americans just cuz they don't believe the way you do.

I know the left will blame the media for not pressuring Rove for an apology, especially after the Dems were humiliated by their own second highest ranking senator having to apologize, but the fact is that the people demanded an apology from Durbin because he maligned our troops. Rove told the truth about libs and the Dems are obviously playing tit-for-tat.

Look at what party has become the inclusive party. There were pro abortion Republicans speaking Primetime at the RNC Convention. There is a chapter of gay Republicans, anti-Iraq-war Republicans, there are the weed smoking Republicans, and so on. The party may not agree with all the ideas, but they let them speak, and don't malign them for having different ideas.

See how far you can go as a pro-life Dem, or a pro-traditional marriage Dem, or a pro-war Dem, and so on. First off, you are not allowed to speak at the convention and you are also considered a homophobe- racist and only needed when it is voting time.

As an example of the mentality of the left when it comes to free expression of ideas: If a conservative speaker comes to a college campus to speak, he/she faces almost certain protests, plus a good chance of being assaulted with a pie. Boy, that is classy, the left will win a lot of votes from mainstream America with those displays.

Now what happens if a left winger goes to a college to speak, what happens? They are welcomed. No protests, no assaults, they just come and speak.

Instead of blaming the MSM(which the left owns for the most part), the left needs to look at its attitude towards free speech within the party and tone down the Republican bashing among other things.

Karl Rove, Evil Genius!

The Dems need to get that 'Yes-I-Cannabis' attitude!

'the stickiest of the icky'

Posted by: Captain Toke | Jun 25, 2005 10:16:10 AM

The key is to whine in a non-whiny way. I suggest by beating the ever-living crap out of anyone who calls us hippies.

Agreed. Time to start a pre-emptive legal defense fund for the worthy citizen who takes a College World Series aluminum bat to Rove's evil head.

Posted by: ahem | Jun 25, 2005 12:46:36 PM

Howard Dean said that the DNC gets more money via the internet whenever he says something 'contraversial'.

'Nuff said.

Posted by: The Dark Avenger | Jun 25, 2005 1:40:39 PM

------"Howard Dean said that the DNC gets more money via the internet whenever he says something 'contraversial'.

'Nuff said."

And he can still only raise half the money that Ken Mehlman can.

'Legalize it!'

Posted by: Captain Toke | Jun 25, 2005 1:50:59 PM

Well, Dean isn't authorized to sell legislation.

Posted by: Kimmitt | Jun 25, 2005 2:42:29 PM

The difference between Rove and Durbin is that Durbin was lying and Rove told the truth. To sane, honest adults, the difference between lying and telling the truth is very important.

Two weeks after 9/11, the pollsters found that 87% of Democrats were in favor of going to war against the terrorists' home base. Rove simply did not tell the truth. And, yes, we sane and honest adults do regard truth telling as very important.

Posted by: sprocket | Jun 27, 2005 12:57:39 PM

The key is to whine in a non-whiny way. I suggest by beating the ever-living crap out of anyone who calls us hippies.

What an idiot. She has her own blog to spew this type of crap on. Why here as well? (ask her about her pussy)

Posted by: Robert Zimmerman | Jun 27, 2005 1:29:18 PM

Zimmy is still stinging from being bitch slapped off of Pandagon after stalking Amanda. By "her pussy" he must mean himself. From the way he talks, you would think this was HIS blog. Here's a thought, Zimmy, spew your nonsensical crap on YOUR own blog on your own dime, you handout taking bitch.

Posted by: JTN | Jun 27, 2005 2:05:20 PM

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