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November 27, 2007

Race, IQ, And Affirmative Action

Now this is sad. Andrew Sullivan tries to answer my post from the other day. There, I picked through Will Saletan's data and asked, "So what's the point of all this? What're the implications? So far as I can tell, there are none. We don't deal with people in aggregate groups. We deal with them as individuals. If 'individual IQ can't be predicted from race,' then none of this actually matters." Andrew, sensing a challenge to the importance of the "black-people-are-dumber" thesis, strikes:

Two words: affirmative action. That policy asserts as an irrefutable fact that any racial discrepancies in college selection are a function of either college-imposed or societal racism. Once the left put the blank slate on the table, and actively supported racial discrimination as public policy as a consequence, they begged the question of whether they had the empirical data to back up their social engineering. Over to Will. Abolish affirmative action and these questions can and will become less salient. How about it?

Oof. Yes, let's turn it over to Will. Remember, the following comes from Sullivan's ally on this subject:

Hereditarians admit that by their own reading of the data, nongenetic factors account for 20 percent to 50 percent of IQ variation. They think malnutrition, disease, and educational deprivation account for a big portion of the 30-point IQ gap between whites and black Africans. They think alleviation of these factors in the United States has helped us halve the deficit. Transracial adoption studies validate this. Korean adoption studies suggest a malnutrition effect of perhaps 10 IQ points. And everyone agrees that the black-white IQ gap closed significantly during the 20th century, which can't have been due to genes.

So, by Sullivan's own evidentiary support, 20%-50% of the gap is environmental, which is to say, a partial product of the deep inequities afflicting American society, inequities that trace back to the hundreds of years in which we subjugated African-Amerixans, crushed their economic and educational opportunities, and isolated them in impoverished communities where they could seek work and respect from one another. This is why, of course, the great American IQ success story, the halving of the IQ gap during the 20th century, occurred -- because we began to reverse some of these inequities.

Now, I don't know how powerful Sullivan thinks affirmative action is, but it's certainly not 20%-50% of the variation. That said, for Sullivan's own read of the data, 20%-50% of the variation Sullivan claims to want to reverse -- rather than just repeatedly point at -- is environmental, the result of low incomes in African-American community, of poor schooling, of education inequality. It would seem that he should not only support affirmative action, but much more besides. Indeed, the history of IQ in this country, the massive closing of the gap that occurred in the 20th Century, is powerful and inspiring proof that better policies and more opportunity can do much to erase the IQ gap that Sullivan is so concerned by. And yet he seems to think that this data, which, again, shows up to half of the variation being environmental, as proof that all policies meant to rectify cross-racial inequalities are deeply misguided.

It is, to say the least, peculiar.

November 27, 2007 | Permalink

Comments

On the issue of affirmative action, I'll just cite dsquared:

... is there a genetic condition which black people are susceptible to which predisposes them to poor educational outcomes, a high rate of incarceration, shorter male life expectancy, alcohol and drug addiction and so forth?

Yep. It's the same genetic condition which causes them to get more speeding tickets. It's called "being black". Black skin is a genetically determined condition, and in the world as it exists (which is the only world we have), it's a dangerous, often life-threatening one. Look at the actuarial tables if you don't believe me - if you have the choice of being born blind or being born black, choose blind.

[...]

In a world in which black people have spent the last couple of hundred years being systematically handicapped by white people, the entire discussion of what the genetic component of their problems might be is just ridiculous.

In a sense, though, this discussion is useful because it reveals the motivation of the 'alas, blacks r teh dumb' mock contrarians: it is, in essence, a pseudoscientific prop against anti-discrimination programs and legislation.

Posted by: pseudonymous in nc | Nov 27, 2007 10:56:51 AM

"... This is why, of course, the great American IQ success story, the halving of the IQ gap during the 20th century, occurred -- because we began to reverse some of these inequities."

I don't believe this is accurate.

Posted by: James B. Shearer | Nov 27, 2007 11:01:07 AM

It is, to say the least, peculiar.

I would say it's "horribly racist", but that's just me.

Posted by: John Cain | Nov 27, 2007 11:27:58 AM

Yeah, Sullivan isn't doing so well in this exchange I think.

Posted by: Korha | Nov 27, 2007 11:37:28 AM

It seems utterly unremarkable to me that there might be a genetic component to intelligence, and thus a disparity in aggregate wholes, like ethnicities; to what degree is eminently debatable. Just as there is likely to be in, say, the Bay Area versus some suitably large geographic area in another part of the country: Natural selection and adaptation to environment exert their influences. That said, individual variation due to both inheritability and responses to environmental stimuli is so very powerful and diverse that using the aggregate whole to judge someone's individual worth is completely useless. Policies like affirmative action are designed precisely with that in mind; you can't judge the individual through preconceptions. That this simple fact goes completely ungrasped by people like Andrew Sullivan is mind boggling.

Posted by: James F. Elliott | Nov 27, 2007 11:49:28 AM

"It is, to say the least, peculiar."

Like, say, a certain institution?

Posted by: Dan S. | Nov 27, 2007 12:33:29 PM

Oh, and meant to say, excellent point, Ezra.

Posted by: Dan S. | Nov 27, 2007 12:35:37 PM

Don't forget systemic destruction of the family structure of the descendants of African slaves in this country, starting with the slaves and more or less continuing to this day (see: disparate sentencing in non-violent drug offenses, for just one example).

Posted by: Persia | Nov 27, 2007 1:22:40 PM

If it weren't so disgusting it would be pitiful and amusing to here the term 'variability explained' used by these clowns who couldn't pass eco 101, psych 101 or stats 101 (or if they did the institution/prof who passed them should be put out of our misery). Those of us who've succesfully used the general linear model to make progress in darkly lit areas always smile a little when some yokel asks 'what explains the rest of the variance?'. I hope, at least for their sake, that ignorance really is bliss.

Posted by: Richard S | Nov 27, 2007 1:27:53 PM

It's almost as if Sullivan were ... black..

Posted by: Jamey | Nov 27, 2007 1:38:13 PM

There are many people who (for reasons that vary and will never be acknowledged by them or their supporters) can't admit they are wrong. Joe Klein is the current poster boy for this phenomena, but Saletan or Sullivan are competing for first-stand-in. Bush is the King of this empire of fools.

In Sullivan's 'case', I'm not sure whether he should be excused because he seems to be one of the products of 19th century British racism, or whether he should be condemned even more harshly as a open gay person that has undoubtedly experienced overt discrimination (over another never-settled discussion of gay-by-nature vs. gay-by-choice and seems to have learned nothing from it.

I guess it is also possible that he has 'redneck disorder' - the psychological compulsion to have some other group of people lower on the social acceptability/success scale than his group.

Logical and factual argument will not win out on people like Sully and Will (or Bush, for that matter). They are imprisoned in their own psychological pathologies. Can't we just say they are racist fucks?

Posted by: JimPortlandOR | Nov 27, 2007 1:43:20 PM

This is one of your best reasoned posts, and I love it when one can turn an argument against itself.

Posted by: akaison | Nov 27, 2007 2:18:15 PM

Between this ongoing idea-free defense of racism racialism sound science and his recent habit of describing Bush as a liberal because he's fiscally irresponsible, I've lost almost all respect for Sullivan lately. (Obligatory cheap shot: why did I respect him in first place? etc.) This is a really egregious example of his "how could any honest person doubt that blacks are stupid?" theme:

Another big non-surprise: Africa has close to zero Internet culture, as a new UN report chronicles. Money quote:
"For most people even making a telephone call is still a remote possibility in an era when most of the world is now communicating almost instantly across cities, regions and the globe using wireless and satellite technologies to send high-speed electronic messages."
Just don't tell James Watson, okay?

Wow. Africa doesn't have much technological infrastructure because... blacks are stupid or something?

Posted by: Cyrus | Nov 27, 2007 2:50:49 PM

Who said IQ was a true measure of intelligence anyway? It only measures a certain kind of mental ability. There is growing evidence that diet and environment can play a huge role in brain development. Also, differences in lifestyle can cause certain genetic traits to be expressed. Someone with poor nutrition, neglected and abused by parents, poor education and growing up in rough neighborhood just isn't likely to score high on most intelligence tests anyway.

Race itself is a vague generalization based more on cultural conditioning more than sound science.

How many races there are often depends of what country your in. In The US, we assume three races. In Brazil, its more than fifty! There also tends to be tremendous genetic variation within the “races”.

White people have different eye colors, hair colors and body types. Some black people are light skinned or dark skinned. Asians from Japan look very different than Asians from Bali. Might they be defined as two different “races”? And who decides what constitutes a “race” anyway? And by what criteria?



Posted by: George Arndt | Nov 27, 2007 3:09:24 PM

When I see a conservative talk about how stupid whites are compared to Asians, then I will know it's not racism.

Posted by: akaison | Nov 27, 2007 3:16:29 PM

How many races there are often depends of what country your in. In The US, we assume three races. In Brazil, its more than fifty! There also tends to be tremendous genetic variation within the “races”.

Three? No way, we have five: white, black, hispanic, asian and Irish.

Posted by: Cyrus | Nov 27, 2007 4:26:45 PM

Cyrus - We are white now. The new classification is:
white, black, mexican, asian and arab.

Posted by: the irish | Nov 27, 2007 4:36:26 PM

Don't forget systemic destruction of the family structure...

It appears that this commenter is pro-family when discussing the reasons given the current state of blacks. He understands the value of family and its effect on future generations.

Good for you

Posted by: El viajero | Nov 27, 2007 4:39:55 PM

I still think prolonging this discussion - trying to get Saletan or Sullivan to see just what's so wrong about their reasoning - is just not worth it. This is lousy social "science" being used to justify common prejudices and preconceived notions. We have affirmative action to address social inequality, not prove something about intelligence. And IQ is just not a scientific measure of any sort. Comparing scores and calling it meaningful is just absurd. And rather than wading into exchanging $5 words like heritability, I think we should just leave it at "IQ data is unreliable" and move on. You're never going to convince Sullivan - so fascinated, like Brooks, with the quasi-social sciences of polling and test taking - that his take on this could remotely be construed as racist. And arguing with him just gives his points a seriousness they really don't deserve.

Posted by: weboy | Nov 27, 2007 5:02:20 PM

So let me get this straight: It's okay to use aggregate racial differences in socioeconomic status to justify favoring one candidate over another on the basis of race, but it's not okay to use aggregate racial differences in intelligence test scores to do the same thing. What is the justification for this blatant double standard?

Posted by: Forman | Nov 27, 2007 5:05:40 PM

If memory serves, a real scientist named Stephen Jay Gould shot the arguments about this to pieces years ago.
You will probably find that, following good conservative practice, the supportive data have been cherry-picked, the contrary data ignored or put in an appendix.

Posted by: bob h | Nov 27, 2007 5:25:14 PM

Africa doesn't have much technological infrastructure because... blacks are stupid or something?

Obviously, Nokia's pale, blond Finnish types must be equally stupid in selling, oh, millions of cellphones in Africa, filling a gap that comes from, oh, the logistical problems of putting up phone lines.

Oh, and if Africa has 'zero Internet culture', then who the fuck is sending all of those emails offering me a ten percent share of JOSEPH ABACHA's pilfered TWENTY MILLION DOLLARS (US)?

Posted by: pseudonymous in nc | Nov 27, 2007 5:41:43 PM

If memory serves, a real scientist named Stephen Jay Gould shot the arguments about this to pieces years ago.

Your memory doesn't serve. Gould's position is not at all representative of expert opinion on the issue of individual and group differences in intelligence.

Posted by: JasonR | Nov 27, 2007 5:44:32 PM

"So let me get this straight: It's okay to use aggregate racial differences in socioeconomic status to justify favoring one candidate over another on the basis of race, but it's not okay to use aggregate racial differences in intelligence test scores to do the same thing. What is the justification for this blatant double standard?

Posted by: Forman | Nov 27, 2007 5:05:40 PM"

Sadly, a product of the American educational system at work. Before you answer too quickly think for a second, and tell me- is this the conversation we are having?

Posted by: akaison | Nov 27, 2007 5:44:38 PM

Well if it isn't old crazy JasonR- still paranoid Jason?

Posted by: akaison | Nov 27, 2007 5:45:36 PM

Let me get this straight.

According to Andrew Sullivan there is evidence that blacks are genetically less intelligent. Finally coming to grips with this grim fact will finally free us to deal more productively with racial issues. For example, we will finally realize that affirmative action is hopeless, these people just cannot be helped that way, they don't have it in them. Difficult truths and all that. Good for us all.

I like Andrew Sullivan. He is an engaging write and sometimes intelligent. And then sometimes he is so unutterably stupid. Fucking idiotic. Really, I can't find the words.

Posted by: tomtom | Nov 27, 2007 7:49:10 PM

I still think prolonging this discussion - trying to get Saletan or Sullivan to see just what's so wrong about their reasoning - is just not worth it.

We liberals tried to ignore this sort of nonsense for a long time, and we got ... what we got. The only answer is to engage, every time. I love, love, love what Greenwald is doing with the other Klein's work. It's absolutely essential. Nothing changes until disgraceful behavior is vilified publicly.

The fact that Saletan is being treated differently from, say, Jayson Blair is a big problem. A guy like Saletan would have been considered beyond the pale 30 years ago, precisely because scientists were on the prowl against junk science, and the rest of us were opposed to public expressions of racism. The only way we reclaim the achievements of the past is to engage the idiots. Sadly, they are no longer beneath contempt, but they can be cut back down again.

Posted by: politicalfootball | Nov 27, 2007 8:04:19 PM

Paul Krugman on Steven J. Gould:

".....I have tried, in preparation for this talk, to read some evolutionary economics, and was particularly curious about what biologists people reference. What I encountered were quite a few references to Stephen Jay Gould, hardly any to other evolutionary theorists. Now it is not very hard to find out, if you spend a little while reading in evolution, that Gould is the John Kenneth Galbraith of his subject. That is, he is a wonderful writer who is bevolved by literary intellectuals and lionized by the media because he does not use algebra or difficult jargon. Unfortunately, it appears that he avoids these sins not because he has transcended his colleagues but because he does does not seem to understand what they have to say; and his own descriptions of what the field is about - not just the answers, but even the questions - are consistently misleading. His impressive literary and historical erudition makes his work seem profound to most readers, but informed readers eventually conclude that there's no there there. (And yes, there is some resentment of his fame: in the field the unjustly famous theory of "punctuated equilibrium", in which Gould and Niles Eldredge asserted that evolution proceeds not steadily but in short bursts of rapid change, is known as "evolution by jerks").

What is rare in the evolutionary economics literature, at least as far as I can tell, is references to the theorists the practitioners themselves regard as great men - to people like George Williams, William Hamilton, or John Maynard Smith. This is serious, because if you think that Gould's ideas represent the cutting edge of evolutionary theory (as I myself did until about a year and a half ago), you have an almost completely misguided view of where the field is and even of what the issues are."
http://web.mit.edu/krugman/www/evolute.html

Posted by: pjgoober | Nov 27, 2007 10:06:04 PM

PJ - how do you see this as relevant to the discussion? In that speech, which opinions of Gould did Krugman dispute? As someone who cites Krugman as an authority, are you prepared to acknowledge Krugman's deep knowledge and keen insight on political and economic matters - that is, matters where he claims genuine expertise? Or are you merely saying that he's an expert on evolutionary biology, a matter in which he has no background?

Gould himself was accustomed to being cited in support of creationism by dishonest hacks. Is there some reason to suppose you are citing Krugman for any reason other than to obscure the issues?


Posted by: politicalfootball | Nov 27, 2007 10:23:14 PM

I have to wonder how much of this nonsense isn't just people trying to explain away stupid mistakes they made without being embarrassed --- and digging themselves a deeper hole as they do it. Sullivan should have just said it was stupid of him to have published that Bell Curve nonsense, he's deeply ashamed of having been taken in by it, and he hopes that he's learned from his mistake.

On the other hand, that would probably highlight the fact that his career is one of being taken in again, and again, but it's better to learn from your mistakes than to compound them.

Posted by: dm | Nov 28, 2007 11:03:20 AM

Here is eminent evolutionary biologist and geneticist John Maynard Smith:
"Gould occupies a rather curious position, particularly on his side of the Atlantic. Because of the excellence of his essays, he has come to be seen by non-biologists as the preeminent evolutionary theorist. In contrast, the evolutionary biologists with whom I have discussed his work tend to see him as a man whose ideas are so confused as to be hardly worth bothering with, but as one who should not be publicly criticized because he is at least on our side against the creationists. All this would not matter, were it not that he is giving non-biologists a largely false picture of the state of evolutionary theory."
http://books.google.com/books?id=ZudTchiioUoC&pg=RA1-PA210&sig=YQM8v98Xo9Bkb3WhTGTfgsOx54s#PPP1,M1

Here are the evolutionary psychology pioneers. John Tooby and Leda Cosmides on Gould:
"Although Gould characterizes his critics as "anonymous" and "a tiny coterie," nearly every major evolutionary biologist of our era has weighed in in a vain attempt to correct the tangle of confusions that the higher profile Gould has inundated the intellectual world with. The point is not that Gould is the object of some criticism -- so properly are we all -- it is that his reputation as a credible and balanced authority about evolutionary biology is non-existent among those who are in a professional position to know...
These [major evolutionary biologists] include Ernst Mayr, John Maynard Smith, George Williams, Bill Hamilton, Richard Dawkins, E.O. Wilson, Tim Clutton-Brock, Paul Harvey, Brian Charlesworth, Jerry Coyne, Robert Trivers, John Alcock, Randy Thornhill, and many others."
http://cogweb.ucla.edu/Debate/CEP_Gould.html

See this overcomingbias.com post for more info:
http://www.overcomingbias.com/2007/11/beware-of-gould.html

Posted by: pjgoober | Nov 28, 2007 11:14:19 AM

I didn't read Stephen Jay Gould back in the day as an evolutionary theorist, nor did the teacher presenting the material pretend he was. From the sample that I got I always thought that Gould was a trained biologist of some kind but looking less at outcomes rather than method. Methods that, by and large, were not technologically advanced enough to produce the kind of isolated causation that many of the scientists were seeking, so Gould observes it as some kind of intellectual slippage between hard data and the social reality that the scientists want to quantify. It's not hard science, it's social science, and is a pretty reasonable scholarly goal. However, for all I know in a part I didn't get to read Gould may have to declared himself to be the preeminent authority on all evolutionary theory ever conceived so what the hell ...

Posted by: Paula | Nov 30, 2007 1:16:39 AM

I don't believe that there's enough evidence to suport a genetically based difference in intelligence between those large populations, and theoretically there's only the possibility, but it isn't the "null hypothesis". I'm against affirmative actions, however. I'm pretty much a fan of the opinions of Thomas Sowell on this subject. Basically, he points that black people and other minorities (such as jews, which once had the same mean IQ that blacks have today on average, but today are purported as some sort of genetic elite of IQ) had much more success prior to affirmative actions on the 70s; that affirmative actions essentially result in a sub-optimal use of the universities - less qualified students have lower rates of grading and grade in less important and worse paid areas; that it reinforces the "evidence" of the stereotype that black people are dumber and incompetent - lower standards of admission (for any group, blacks or alumni, for instance) have lower rates of graduation and take more time to grade, whereas, when the standards are the same for black and white people, the rates of graduation is the same for both groups. It also, even if works, takes away from black people the dignity of raising themselves out of poverty, as other minorities that didn't started as slaves, abut weren't actually in a nice situation, eventually did by themselves. Etc. He wrote a book/research on the empirical evidence for affirmative actions around the world. Here's a disgest based on the book, by the author.

Posted by: DSC | Dec 5, 2007 12:56:39 AM

About Gould:

most of what he's criticized about is not the things on "mismeasure of man", but his ideas on the relevance and implications of the (arguable) pattern of macroevolution (punctuated equilibrium) for mechanisms of evolution, such as natural selection. Some of those critics of him held very extreme selectionist positions (I don't recall if it was Maynard Smith, Mayr, or someone else), such as that even codon bias could be a result of selection, rather than just a chemical bias, which is much more likely and is accepted nowadays as being the case.

Jerry Conway, at least, from those mentioned, is known to oppose the ideas on "the bell curve".

Posted by: DSC | Dec 5, 2007 1:12:27 AM

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