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August 12, 2007
One of those "not pretending to have answers" posts
(Posted by John, not Ezra.)
If you haven't read the NYT piece on Afghanistan today, you really owe it to yourself to. Rob Farley at Lawyers, Guns and Money has some thoughts on whether this retroactively de-legitimizes the invasion of Afghanistan in the first place.
I don't really know the answer to that question in my own head, but my suspicion that Afghanistan is going to end very badly for NATO makes me think it's time for us to leave. (The short version of my argument these days is that nobody has seriously considered enduring the costs that an actual success in Afghanistan would entail, so the forseeable future is bloody back-and-forths between us and the Taliban. Add martial and political incompetence to the mix, and, well...)
That said, I think there's two points I'd like to make in response to Rob's argument: one response to a specific point, and another more general argument.
First, the specific point. Rob writes:
It's certainly reasonable to argue that the Bush administration was too inept to successfully reconstruct Afghanistan, but that argument goes only so far. First, I was confidant at the time... that the US would receive significant international support during and after the invasion. No matter how badly the Bush administration performed, it was reasonable to believe that other countries would pick up much of the slack. This expectation has not been disappointed...
This, I think, underestimates the quantity and kind of incompetence the Bush administration has delivered in Afghanistan. The US troops under the ultimate command of George W. Bush make up most of the ISAF (NATO) forces in Afghanistan. Incompetent leadership of 17,000 (of 35,000 give-or-take) has an obvious determinative effect on the success of the international mission. No matter how competent 6,000 British are, they simply cannot undo the damage that the US Air Force is doing. Then you've got the reliance on high-technology weaponry as a substitute for manpower (vintage Rumsfeld, as if he'd never left) which is actively harmful to securing the loyalty of the Afghan people, or even the British army, as Matthew Yglesias pointed out recently.
Then there's the broader point which I think needs to be made: Rob writes that "Afghanistan isn't Iraq", in the context of arguing that the war hasn't failed. In the words of the Vietnamese officer, that's true, but it's also irrelevant. I fear that Iraq has become such a freakish horror-show that lesser, but still incredibly bad defeats seem somehow pleasant by comparison. But for those keeping track, the government of Afghanistan doesn't seem inherently more stable than that of Iraq, it's internal security is challenged by more quiet but far better organized threats, the Taliban and AQ can still set off explosives and kidnappings more or less at will throughout the country, and worst of all, Al Qaeda have gone from being protected by a barely-medieval failed state in 2001 to being protected by an industrially-armed nuclear power, nominally an ally, in 2007. And the self-inflicted stupidity that NATO's dealing with doesn't seem likely to stop any time soon -- NATO has agreed to use smaller bombs in its air strikes, a kind of comical gesture that totally fails to understand the real harm these things do to the war effort.
Whether this makes the invasion of Afghanistan retroactively a bad idea, I don't know. I supported the invasion in 2001 and for a long time after (declaring my bias, not appealing to seriousness) but the news from Afghanistan was worse in 2003 than 2002, worse in 2004 than in 2003, worse in 2005 than 2004, etc etc until today. There's some wishful thinking that the US could leave Iraq and transfer the freed troops to Afghanistan. I think the political impulse to remove troops from Iraq is likely to have a similar effect in Afghanistan -- "welcome home from Baghdad, now get on the plane to Kabul" doesn't seem like it would play well in Peoria.
Fundamentally, I don't think any western capital, including D.C., is really convinced anymore that Afghanistan's fate is a matter of vital importance. If we were, we'd have changed our policies a long time ago. But even the nominally pro-war party in Canada doesn't think the situation is serious enough to merit postponing precious, precious tax cuts.
August 12, 2007 | Permalink
Comments
Fundamentally, I don't think any western capital, including D.C., is really convinced anymore that Afghanistan's fate is a matter of vital importance.
You're probably right, but isn't that a dangerous assumption for the West to make? With the great potential for instability or a coup in neighboring Pakistan, not to mention constant US-Iran tension, isn't Afghanistan a regional keystone? Maintaining some sort of state there, even a relatively feeble one, seems to be in the best interest of the US/EU, Pakistan, Iran, and the bordering former Soviet republics. I don't mean to put forth a kind of failed-state domino theory here, but if Afghanistan becomes a patchwork of squabbling warlords, it doesn't bode well for all other nations in the area. It may not have an immediate impact, but in the long term (like, say, the next two decades), a lawless Afghanistan will become a fever swamp for all sorts of militant groups in the region that wish to bring down existing states and realize their fundamentalist dreams. I really think it's worse for the world than, say, a Shi'ia strong man coming to power in Iraq. (Which, down the road, is probably the most likely outcome.)
This is scary stuff, not just because it could enable further terrorism against the West, but because it could create all sorts of tyranny and misery in Central Asia.
Posted by: Drew | Aug 13, 2007 1:18:16 AM
A key question to be asked, in 2001 and today, is whether the US would have engaged in the active overthrow of the Taliban if al Queda were not there, but instead in, say, Sudan - assuming that 9/11 had happened and that we were sure that al Queda had planned and attacked NYC and DC.
I think the answer is probably 'no'. Democracy or overthrow of the Taliban for their human rights abuses were not reasons that the US would have engaged in Afghanistan.
But al Queda was in Afghanistan, although not in control of the country. We could have told the Taliban we were going to wipe out al Queda and they had best stay out of out way. Would they have accepted that reality? Who knows. The point is that we decided to overthrow those in control (Taliban) while attempting to destroy al Queda, and it is clear that we didn't do either completely. Iraq aside, I doubt we would have finished the job anyway, given that that goal would have involved an ultimatum to Pakistan that we still haven't delivered. Iran, interestingly, was helping us get rid of both al Queda and the Taliban, and Iraq was not involved at all it appears in Afghanistan.
In summary, we had some choices to make, independent of Iraq, and we seem to have made the wrong ones since Job One (get al Queda) didn't get done.
Posted by: JimPortlandOR | Aug 13, 2007 1:44:36 AM
It is a peculiar strategic dichotomy -- this analytic division between the decision to go to war and the choice of how to conduct the war.
It appears as if some special, philosophical heavy-lifting is necessary to support the proposition that strategic incompetence leading to strategic failure is something any sane person would support, in prospect or retrospect.
It would seem like the sort of proposition, which would attract a supermajorities of assent. Failure thru incompetence = bad, does not seem like recipe for controversy.
The same inarticulate decider-in-chief who bungled the setting of strategic objectives, set in motion a bungled execution of policy. War is just policy by other means; the choice of objectives and setting in motion the organizational machine is the same, seamless series of acts.
Nothing is accomplished by imagining some other, counterfactual policy, whether that counterfactual policy includes war or not, except the rehearsal of someone's theoretical justifications.
It is confusing that the U.S. has no clearly known, well-articulated, credible goals for its participation in either conflict. No Gettysburg Address, no 14 Points, no plan for a United Nations. Just an insistence that "success" is "vital". What should not be confusing to anyone, who is paying attention, is that this is a continuing recipe for a clusterf*ck, and that is bad, bad, bad.
U.S. policy, foreign and domestic, is in the hands of people, who are fundamentally disinclined to competent governance. But, the Constitution does not provide any practical means to remove them from office. Deal with that.
Posted by: Bruce Wilder | Aug 13, 2007 2:13:55 AM
But, the Constitution does not provide any practical means to remove them from office. Deal with that.
No, the Constitution does provide the means. What is lacking is the political will to employ it. Is that what you mean by "practical"?
Posted by: WB Reeves | Aug 13, 2007 8:48:40 AM
But, the Constitution does not provide any practical means to remove them from office. Deal with that.
No, the Constitution does provide the means. What is lacking is the political will to employ it. Is that what you mean by "practical"?
Posted by: WB Reeves | Aug 13, 2007 8:50:41 AM
Successful impeachment is not "practical". Requiring a simple majority in the House and a super-majority in the Senate is hardly practical. We have trouble enough drumming up that type of support for expanding S-CHIP.
Our system heavily favors the status quo. And "Bush in power" is the status quo. Congressmen have 95% re-election rates: the vast majority of people fucking up stuff right now on the hill will be there 2 years from now, probably continuing to fuck stuff up.
If we want to change things, its gotta start now, not just with the candidates we elect next Nov, but with the candidates to put up for election now.
Posted by: mop | Aug 13, 2007 9:25:28 AM
Not to derail the thread into debate over impeachment per se but to argue against it because the votes aren't there at the beginning of the process, is, I think, to misunderstand the nature of impeachment.
The process itself is an inquiry into fact, only culminating in removal from office if the facts are judged to warrant such action. In the course of such, public opinion is informed and plays a driving role in the legislative outcome. This because impeachment is fundamentally a political, rather than a legal process. This is well illustrated by the wildly disparate outcomes of the process in the cases of Nixon and Clinton.
In short, arguing that the remedy is impractical because the votes aren't there prior to the process being undertaken is comparable to arguing that no other legislative initiative should be undertaken unless the votes "are there". Obviously, this would reduce the role of public debate to a purely ceremonial one and render popular opinion politically null and void.
Posted by: WB Reeves | Aug 13, 2007 11:03:18 AM
I wouldn't say I'm fundamentally misunderstanding impeachment; I'd say you're fundamentally misunderstanding the Republican party and the culture in Washington (including the press) currently.
Maybe I'm just a cynic.
But the public debate would end being about whether or not this is just political tit-for-tat from the Dems. And the Dems would have to argue first and foremost that they were even justified in bringing this to the table (which is questionable). Then there's the whole issue of Pelosi possibly angling for her own personal gain (with the likely impeachment of Cheney right after Bush elevating her to the Presidency). Etc etc.
Posted by: mop | Aug 13, 2007 2:18:13 PM
But the public debate would end being about whether or not this is just political tit-for-tat from the Dems. And the Dems would have to argue first and foremost that they were even justified in bringing this to the table (which is questionable). Then there's the whole issue of Pelosi possibly angling for her own personal gain (with the likely impeachment of Cheney right after Bush elevating her to the Presidency). Etc etc.
I'm certainly less confident than you about predicting the future. I will state frankly that I consider the outcome of the process to be unknowable at this juncture. You, evidently, believe you know to an absolute certainty the outcome in advance.
I'm not sure what the media culture in DC or the "nature" of the GOP has to do with anything, since nothing I said is predicated on assumptions about either. Unless you're arguing that these are immune to aroused popular sentiment. In which case, I'm not certain it makes sense for you to be making political arguments in the first place.
Posted by: WB Reeves | Aug 14, 2007 11:00:59 AM
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