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April 02, 2007

More on the Deserves

To say a bit more about TheStreet.com's primer for millions, my objection is partially articulated by commenter DivGuy, who writes, "the problem here is that thestreet is creating the conditions for one to believe that people with less wealth, less financial stability, deserve their situation in the same way that the wealthy fundamentally deserve their wealth due to their financial acumen. I find that position ethically indefensible."

My problem goes a bit further: It's economically indefensible as well. To offer one of many possible examples, take this bit on the economic importance of social networks from Malcolm Gladwell's Six Degrees of Lois Weisberg:

The sociologist Mark Granovetter examined this question in his classic 1974 book "Getting a Job." Granovetter interviewed several hundred professional and technical workers from the Boston suburb of Newton, asking them in detail about their employment history. He found that almost fifty-six per cent of those he talked to had found their jobs through a personal connection, about twenty per cent had used formal means (advertisements, headhunters), and another twenty per cent had applied directly.[...]

If you think about the world in this way, the whole project of affirmative action suddenly starts to make a lot more sense. Minority-admissions programs work not because they give black students access to the same superior educational resources as white students, or access to the same rich cultural environment as white students, or any other formal or grandiose vision of engineered equality. They work by giving black students access to the same white students as white students -- by allowing them to make acquaintances outside their own social world and so shortening the chain lengths between them and the best jobs.

Lists like the one at TheStreet.com simply erase social networks from the equation. These networks, which have repeatedly proven utterly critical to economic mobility, are not the products of prudence, or virtue. But they are powerful governing forces in economic life.

But we don't actually think an economy run on the principle of "who you know" is fair, and if we were to conclude that our economy was such a place, and thus the poor and the marginal and the rural and the shy were heavily disadvantaged, we might have to think about how to rectify some of those inequities. By instead pushing the myth that riches come from virtues, that we live in a pure-ish meritocracy, that wealth is the direct product of the puritan work ethic, we assuage that guilt, ignore those questions, and set into motion myths that are bad for public policy. If wealth is deserved, redistribution is immoral. If it is lucked into, redistribution is just. The answer, of course, lies somewhere between the two, but attempts to frame economic mobility entirely or even largely in terms of virtue should be resisted.

Update: From comments, this is pretty funny. Atlas Shrugged 2: One Hour Later.

April 2, 2007 in Inequality | Permalink

Comments

Ezra, this is bang on. The great American mythology regarding "rugged individualism" and meritocracy is precisely the reason the US is so far behind other Western nations in pursuing social justice. Props for so articulately stating the heart of the matter that is so rarely brought up.

Posted by: moo-cow | Apr 2, 2007 3:28:17 PM

I'm a good example of your point. I had enough money to attend a program to get a professional certification. While in the program, I completed a practicum at a local institution. After I graduated, I contacted my practicum supervisor and inquired about job possibilities. He championed my cause to the administration, and a job became available, which became my present job. None of this would have happened if I hadn't been a student there, which depended on me having the money to attend that program.

Posted by: beckya57 | Apr 2, 2007 3:40:44 PM

1974???

I would venture that with Monster and the other nationwide job search systems available today, the figures would be different. Also, since 1974 blacks have much more access to everything including the 'good ol' boy' system. Put simply, they are more integrated (if they wish to be) in society than ever and yet the "need" for Affirmative Action seems to be going up.

Posted by: Fred Jones | Apr 2, 2007 3:41:49 PM

Ezra, I have to tell you point blank here that you're off-base in your criticism. The context of the original article at TheStreet.com was about saving and financial planning. Now, if the article had been entitled, "why you suffer long-term unemployment and can't find a good job since being layed off," then, yes, points like, "You don't have enough casual acquaitences," "your social class does not contain enough people who can offer you a job," and "you ended up in a profession that does not have legal protections that create high barriers to entry from competitors." I'd be insulted if TheStreet.com didn't mention those things in such an article. That wasn't what the article you linked to was about. "Why you're not a millionaire" was not about "why you're not pulling down 500k/yr as an investment banker." It was about "why your middle-income-level financial planning might not be up to snuff."

Posted by: Constantine | Apr 2, 2007 3:43:54 PM

Fred, riiiight. Monster gives you 500 resumes, and you'll go through them all, and not look at the ones sent by friends and acquaintaces. You'll tell them to have the applicant go through Monster.

Posted by: Barry | Apr 2, 2007 3:50:39 PM

Valid concerns, but, again, as Constantine points out, they're misplaced in connection with the TheStreet.com article. The article is directed to people with money to invest who aren't millionaires. It isn't for or really about people in general. It's about things readers of the site can do (which doesn't include being born with more money or being luckier). There's no reason it should deal with the issues you raise. Habits are treated as good or bad solely in relation to the goal of being rich. It nowhere talks about desert, nowhere argues the rich are better than the poor, or even that we should want to be rich. It's for those who want to be rich and have some money to invest already.

Posted by: Sanpete | Apr 2, 2007 3:51:39 PM

Hey, before I employed myself, Monster gave me the widest exposure and I got a great break there working for the second largest software company in the US. I was from a poor family who had no social or political contacts at all.

Of course, no one is willing to pay me what *I'm* willing to pay me so pretty soon it felt like it was costing me to stay employed by corporations.

Posted by: Fred Jones | Apr 2, 2007 3:57:39 PM

You keep saying this about TheStreet, but here's the lede:

"The reason why you aren't a millionaire (or on your way to becoming one) is really quite simple. You probably assume it's because you aren't earning enough money, but the truth is that for most people, whether or not you become a millionaire has very little to do with the amount of money you make."

"Most people." Those are the key words.

Posted by: Ezra | Apr 2, 2007 3:59:27 PM

I recently got a mailing from Fidelity talking about retirement investing. They gave a couple of case studies that they pitched as regular people getting ahead on their retirement, which really gave me a good laugh.

In one they start out trumpeting a family that has a $2 million dollar nest egg for retirement by their mid-40s. They start by talking about the husband's various investments, maxing out his 401K, etc, that were worth $400,000 then in a short paragraph that follows they mention the wife got a $1.6 million inheritance from her aunt! I about blew the coffee out my nose.

In another they talk about a couple in their mid-30s who have saved something like $300,000 for their retirement. The couple gave up eating out except on their anniversary, they stopped taking vacations that required any real travel, made their kids pick only one extracurricular activity, etc. They were saving like 40 or 50% of their take home pay, but seemed to be living a soulless existence for their goals.

In the end their suggestions were much more realistic that those on the Street. Much more about not spending your money, just saving it. No debt. Not much fun, unless you have a good paying job or inherit a boatload of cash. Probably pretty realistic, even though it was evident the mailing was aimed at people earning well above the average income.

Posted by: Ricky | Apr 2, 2007 4:08:21 PM

Fred: such a typical, arrogant Oracle guy! I’m joking; I spend time there too… who hasn’t in the valley.

Posted by: DM | Apr 2, 2007 4:14:32 PM

Actually, I was talking about INTUIT, DM. Perhaps I was wrong in ranking it second.

Posted by: Fred Jones | Apr 2, 2007 4:19:18 PM

I wonder if you could make an analogy between this and how Hollywood works. There's a debate I hear within the industry about success and whether it comes from talent or who you know. Some folks think that the creme rises to the top, and regardless of your connections, if you're talented, you'll be successful. Others say it's ALL about who you know and who the people you know, know, ect. In reality, both are kind of true, and I suspect the same is true when it comes to careers and making money in the real world.

The problem is the same problem we have with every other issue in the entire world, there's no room for a middle ground, because the only people who think/care about issues are on one extreme or the other.

This is what appeals to me about Obama, he strikes me as a guy who isn't interested in playing the same old game, he seems interested in finding actual solutions to problems and doesn't give two shits about you or the other guy's warped frame.

Posted by: Matt | Apr 2, 2007 4:20:10 PM

Nice post, Ezra. You're absolutely right to tie this issue to the question of affirmative action.

Also, I'm terribly impressed that you included "the shy" in your list of those who are "heavily disadvantaged" by the it's-who-you-know economy. I thought no one would ever notice! :)

Anyway, for those of us fall into the category, it's a daunting world these days. I work two part-time jobs, both highly skilled and both wildly underpaid. If I could just be a different person--an extravert--but with the same abilities, I suspect I'd have a lot more opportunities and therefore a lot more leverage in the job market. Not to mention health and retirement benefits.

Posted by: Rifka | Apr 2, 2007 4:23:06 PM

DM, I didn't! I avoided the Oracle trap! Of course, people who stay stuff like "I worked for the 2nd largest software company in the world!" reminds me of the article from The Onion Teen Lands Job With Fortune 500 Company.

Anyway, Ezra, it looks like this is all coming down to the author's throwaway line about "most." I don't honestly think that the author has a political agenda. He just forgot that the demographics of his readers are not "most people." But middle-income earners are a lot of people.

Ricky, now perhaps that last couple you describe isliving a bit more of a Spartan lifestyle than you would be comfortable with, but plenty of families don't take pricey vacations and also they eat out sparingly and their kids don't participate in a large selection of pricey activities. They don't consider that existence "soulless." It might not be normal for people of their income level, but that's why they have $300k in savings and their peers don't.

Posted by: Constantine | Apr 2, 2007 4:23:27 PM

Matt, I would argue that in Hollywood, there are far, far more excellent actors than there are starring roles. Not only that, but the utility of being a good actor is much lower for steady, but lesser acting roles.

So you've got a lot of actors who are good at what they do, but few top spots for them to fill. For the lesser spots, their excellent acting skills don't necessarily give them a significant leg up on the competition. At the end of the day, auxillary factors are going to come into play when it comes to determining whether you're successful (connections, happenstance, etc.). I'm sure this applies in other fields, as well, though perhaps not to as stark a degree.

Posted by: Constantine | Apr 2, 2007 4:27:58 PM

Ezra, you're putting way to weight on two incidental words in the article. It clearly isn't really about most people, most of whom live in other countries, are poor, and aren't in a position to read TheStreet.com or invest. It isn't even about most Americans. It's about the kind of people reading the article.

The barking is good; it's just the wrong tree.

Posted by: Sanpete | Apr 2, 2007 4:29:13 PM

Ezra:

Now THAT's a post.

Damn!

Nate W.

Posted by: Nate W. | Apr 2, 2007 4:31:03 PM


The real point is that Granovetter's discoveries make TheStreet.com's list both trivial and wrong. Under Granovetter, it often is economically superior to drive new cars and wear expensive clothes, for example. Why? Because the country club, where many wealth-creating connections can be made, won't allow you to become a member if you're driving a beat-up grey '78 Chevette with rust spots and wearing stuff from the bargain bin.

Many extravagances (lavish entertaining, for example) are, in fact, often economically valuable. They establish you in the community, without which oftentimes it's much more difficult to hear about opportunities. They signal to others that you're a high-status individual. They signal that you already are an economic success.

Posted by: burritoboy | Apr 2, 2007 4:40:21 PM

Constantine,

The thing about that family was in reading their quotes about their new ways, they really did sound like they had given up the fun in their lives for the pursuit of their financial goals. I just found it interesting because as a marketing piece both case studies fell relatively flat in their intended goal of trying to persuade me to invest more money with them. But the tone of the marketing piece was actually similar to the details in the Street's list, which was basically you will get ahead if you spend all your time (and save all your money) worrying about and studying your portfolio. Ignoring, of course, the fact that there is risk in any investment and being lucky is often as important as being smart (As anyone who was unluckly enough to retire in late 90s will tell you.). The only safe investments do require you to have a ton of money or a generous income.

We all know life is about choices, but in my experience I have found that for every friend who did things right and got ahead there was another who made the same sorts of moves and got burned. By the same token for every friend who was slacker, burnout, or ne'er-do-well and ended up with nothing, there was more than the fair share of those who scammed, coerce, and lied their ways to much more than even the best of my friends who played by the 'rules'! Meritocracy my ass!

Posted by: Ricky | Apr 2, 2007 4:45:35 PM

burritoboy, the spending habits of those profiled in "The Millionaire Next Door" say quite the opposite of what you are claiming.

The purpose of country clubs and the like is not to segregate by income and wealth, but rather by social class. At the time that Granovetter wrote, in 1974, Newton, MA was a middle-class/working-class small-sized city, not the upper-middle class suburb of $500k houses that it is today.

Posted by: Constantine | Apr 2, 2007 4:45:41 PM

Ricky, well, I didn't read the article myself, so I can't comment on it directly. However, plenty of families who, by dint of their actual income, rather than the amount they're saving, can't eat out all very often or take expensive vacations. I wouldn't like to think that because of this, the lives of the lower-middle class were soulless. Now, their habits seem a bit extreme to me, but if I knew a couple who lived like that because they couldn't afford to live otherwise, their lives can still be happy. Thus, so to could people who choose to live lifestyles far below the sorts of lifestyles they could live be happy.

Posted by: Constantine | Apr 2, 2007 4:50:44 PM

So what do you propose? A luck tax? a social skills tax? how exactly do you equitably compensate for things that are immensely difficult to define let alone measure?

Be honest, this is an ad hoc argument. You think inequality of wealth is inherently injust however it is arrived at, and think attempting to portray it as a conspiracy between the wealthy and the cosmos to screw the little guy out of their due makes it more appealing.

Posted by: the invisible pimp hand | Apr 2, 2007 5:05:37 PM

Your post brings up a new point, about social networks, that I did not consider before in the last post. There is inevitable truth in the "who knows you" department - I recently graduated from law school, and so much of what goes into employment decisions is networking - it helps tremendously to already know a few lawyers before entering law school.

But individual choices matter - you have to get into law school to begin with. And you have to choose that over getting your PhD in a social sciences. And you had to have decided to get into an undergraduate school beforehand. You have to care enough to get into school for that.

i.e., you do get to decide "who you know" to some extent.

It's very possible to "follow the rules" and still get hurt - I don't pretend there aren't cheaters, tricksters, and liars out there. But their presence doesn't mean the system is broken - we do need regulation and laws to make everyone follow the same rules. The fix isn't in.

The problem is the same problem we have with every other issue in the entire world, there's no room for a middle ground, because the only people who think/care about issues are on one extreme or the other.

Bravo to that.

DU

Posted by: The Mechanical Eye | Apr 2, 2007 5:06:06 PM

Many extravagances (lavish entertaining, for example) are, in fact, often economically valuable. They establish you in the community, without which oftentimes it's much more difficult to hear about opportunities. They signal to others that you're a high-status individual. They signal that you already are an economic success.

It's known as putting up a good front. Success attracts success, even when it's only the appearance of success. It's underlying principal that enables the Ponzis, Glenn W. Turners and Enrons of the world.

Lots of historical and anthropological precedents for this. Display has been a means of establishing status since before the first stone was laid in Sumer. High status breeds increased opportunity.

Not to speak for Ezra but I think folks who believe he's making too much of the wording need to take into account the fact that he is a journalist. For a journalist, the lede of an article isn't a throwaway. It's a promise that the writer makes to the reader. It states that "this is what you will learn about if you continue to read."

From this angle, the very least that can be said is that the author is a sloppy writer. Sloppy writing is usual indicative of sloppy thinking as well.

I wonder how many of the magazine's target audience read the article and simply accepted the howling inaccurancy of the lede?

Posted by: WB Reeves | Apr 2, 2007 5:22:47 PM

Ezra, go read The Fountainhead or Atlas Shrugged.

Posted by: Steven | Apr 2, 2007 5:40:55 PM

"burritoboy, the spending habits of those profiled in "The Millionaire Next Door" say quite the opposite of what you are claiming."

The Millionaire Next Door is dreck. While I can go off about it's numerous analytical problems, one central problem is that it surveys people whose active economic lives were largely defined by the immediate post-WWII period (I believe the average age of their respondents was over 65 even in 1996 when the book was published).

The Millionaire Next Door's central tactic is to utilize savings from a stable professional-level job. The problem is that these tactics were especially viable in the post-WWII period and are far less viable now. The millionaires of that book could afford to drive older cars, live in lower status areas, etc not because of their inherent virtues, but because the American economy was particularly designed during that post-WWII era to support middle-class professionals (no layoffs, suppressed job-turnover, full medical benefits, largely egalitarian suburbs, corporations focused on technical ability, easily available government employment/loans and so on).

Living that way is nearly a guaranteed disaster if you try to pull it off today. Because corporations have forced job turnover to much higher levels, you need to be much more networked if you're going to look for a job every 2 years versus every 20. One interesting factoid is that by the 70s, most private gentleman's social clubs were near death - networking wasn't as necessary in the post-WWII economy as it was in the 1900-1920s (when most of these clubs were founded). Nowadays, these clubs have longer waiting lists than they ever have had, even in the 1900s & 1910s.

Posted by: burritoboy | Apr 2, 2007 5:46:41 PM

"The purpose of country clubs and the like is not to segregate by income and wealth, but rather by social class. At the time that Granovetter wrote, in 1974, Newton, MA was a middle-class/working-class small-sized city, not the upper-middle class suburb of $500k houses that it is today."

And, of course, you haven't thought about why or how that happened and what that might mean, both in terms of The Millionaire Next Door (many of whom simply wouldn't have been millionaires if their houses had chanced to have been in upstate New York versus Newton) and in terms of TheStreet's extremely superficial advice.

Posted by: burritoboy | Apr 2, 2007 5:55:57 PM

steven: go read Atlas shrugged 2: One Hour Later

also, wipe your nose (or hire someone else to do so) before trolling the intertubes.

Posted by: rigel | Apr 2, 2007 6:03:25 PM

"But individual choices matter - you have to get into law school to begin with."

Your whole commentary is very superficial. The point is not law school versus no law school. The difficulty is massively more finely grained than that.

People with low social status do usually know that lawyers exist. They often know that it's better to go to a top-ranked law school rather than a lesser-regarded one. But they have no clue about which firms are best, which specialities are available (and which are on the upswing and which are declining), which firms have which corporate culture, which firms hire from which schools, which firms will never give you a job if you don't know the right forks (or conversely, which firms could care less about forks but care how macho or agressive you are, etc) and infinitely more things.

And there are many instances where pure wealth simply matters a great deal. If you're at a company where common discussion centers around villas in Tuscany, polo ponies, or skiing in Aspen......there's not much a person from a low status background might be able to do about that.

Posted by: burritoboy | Apr 2, 2007 6:19:12 PM

Re: Steven the Randite.

How naive does one have to be to believe that anyone who disagrees with them has never read Ayn Rand? Or that they would have a conversion experience if he did?

Posted by: WB Reeves | Apr 2, 2007 6:29:12 PM

WB Reeves: the term is "Randroid" - sounds much nicer, no?

also, have you checked his website? it's a hoot. in that whole ironically-earnest/Mahir-interwebs kind of way.

Posted by: rigel | Apr 2, 2007 6:32:57 PM

Okay, here's the deal.

I just got into a 2nd tier law school. If you're talking about law school, in particular, and not other professional schools, then you're absolutely wrong. My GPA? 2.75. Let me repeat that for you: 2.75. I barely showed up to college except to pick up my diploma.

I was let in on the strength of my LSAT score and my resume. The first generally correlates with your ability to afford expensive LSAT-prep classes. The second generally correlates with your connections coming out of college. Neither has anything to do with potential proficiency in the law.

This isn't reverse-bragging about how little effort I put in to make my life work -- it's about how little things, things that superficially correlate to standards of merit, in actuality correlate more closely to social class. The more you examine what's required to become successful, the more you recognize this sort of thing.

-- ACS

Posted by: ACS | Apr 2, 2007 6:44:23 PM

Worth noting, that for once Fred is right, but his apoplexy as usual has the wrong sign. Perhaps in 1974 the percentage of networked careers was a mere 56%. The data I have seen in recent literature is closer to 70%.

So, 70% of the people in the country owe their job, their career and their well-being to social connections. Nothing wrong with that of itself, just so long as you don't go pretending we live in anything resembling a meritocracy, and just so long as public policy recognizes how the world actually works.

Posted by: wcw | Apr 2, 2007 6:53:31 PM

But individual choices matter - you have to get into law school to begin with. And you have to choose that over getting your PhD in a social sciences. And you had to have decided to get into an undergraduate school beforehand. You have to care enough to get into school for that.

The "who you know" issue matters less as a lawyer (particularly one who makes partner)-- a lawyer is typically at the same firm for decades until he retires. More relevant is the engineer or the miscellaneous corporate executive. The guy who went to a decent school, got a decent job, but gets laid off in his 40s. The guy who picks up after himself and manages to get a better job relatively quickly is going to be the one with lots of random acquaintances who has those various contacts that can put him in touch with someone who can find him a job as quickly as possible.

In any case, a strategy of, "don't waste money on expensive clothes, an expensive car, and country club memberships" is more apt to build up wealth than to spend one's money on depreciating assets or items that do not create any tangible return on investment. There's a word I use for people in my neighborhood who own expensive cars but don't have enough money for off-street parking-- "idiots."

If you're at a company where common discussion centers around villas in Tuscany, polo ponies, or skiing in Aspen..

Perhaps the companies I've worked at and the people I know who work at those companies are different than most, but these don't seem to be topics of discussion among people who work at IT Consulting Companies, Microsoft, or Hedge funds.

Most "millionaires" have never played polo, don't have villas in Tuscany, and if they go skiing at all, prefer mountains within driving distance.

Posted by: Constantine | Apr 2, 2007 6:54:52 PM

First, I agree with Sanpete, right barking, wrong tree... to some extent. I think there's a lot of assumptions in your post about what this article is saying that speak volumes, as I said on the last post, about social class perceptions in this country, and the dark side of the American Dream (i.e. that if you don't aspire to be more, better, richer... what have you, you must have failed). I don't think one has to agree to the terms as they're being set up in your assumptions - I don't want to be a millionaire (except in a lazy, "gee I kinda wish I were Brad Pitt" kind of way), but I know I'd have to do things differently if I did. It's a question of what you value and what you make as your goal. Why are you insulted if that's something you don't want to be, anyway?

Second, I agree that the whole "it's who you know" aspect to moving up plays a part; but many people have pointed out this is less about race and more about social class at this point; there are a lot of very nice middle class black people who are not doing badly because they have the solcial connections inside and outside their race, very similar to their white peers from the good schools, the top professional programs, etc. The private sector has, to a considerable degree, absorbed the lessons of previous racial roiling - and for big companies marketing major brands to a wide variety of customers, you have to have more diversity in the room than you did in, say, the seventies. What's not happening - and it's happening less, which is the problem - is that smart, scrappy people are being denied the opportunities to make the connections because of their social class and the perception of being outside (wrong school, wrong neighborhood, wrong clothes, etc). That, yes, is a big, big deal. And it drifts into how we self segregate our neighborhoods and our schools and our lives and how cities are becoming ever wealthier enclaves pushing out the middle and working classes. But I think many people self identify as something they're not - either thinking they're the scrappy outsider when in fact they're quite solidly in the upper middle class; or thinking that a couple of breaks can make them part of something they will probably never become. The problem isn't that as a society we think people who don't make it are personal failures; indeed, I think voters have been rejecting conservative Republicans over just such a disagreement with the GOP philosophy: it's selfish and mean. The problem is that we don't think about the people who aren't making it at all, we don't want to, and we'd rather not be forced to contemplate what it would mean to have to change things. Failure isn't the problem, the problem is what we as Americans value, an endless notion of better and richer and more. We don't even think about the opposite. And this article for nice people who do well and want to do better is not at fault for the notion that many of us want to be in that "nice people who do well" subset whether we fit or not. That, unfortunately, has to do with us... and until the values change, I'm not sure you can expect much improvement on the rest.

Posted by: weboy | Apr 2, 2007 7:11:53 PM

"but these don't seem to be topics of discussion among people who work at IT Consulting Companies, Microsoft, or Hedge funds."

Of course, because those are comparatively lower-level employees. Except for hedge funds - the partners (not employees) will have money on that scale. But when you're trying to make partner, or make senior executive - these things can sometimes have an impact. And I was using extreme examples.

Posted by: burritoboy | Apr 2, 2007 7:26:55 PM

when you work in a city like nyc where there are 8 million people just as brilliant as you, you quickly realize, it's kind of arbitrary who wins, and who doesn't. yes it's connections, yes ability, but ultimately right place, right time. it may not make for a good american dream, but it's the reality. i see nyc in fact as the ulimate test of any delusions that its all about meritocracy. anyone coming here with that bullshit will lose fast because there are a lot of qualified people- the real test is the hustle and a little bit of luck.

Posted by: akaison | Apr 2, 2007 7:48:38 PM

"Ezra, go read The Fountainhead or Atlas Shrugged."

Those books are fiction.

Fascinating post and links Ezra, and some great comments, people.

Posted by: Steve | Apr 2, 2007 8:25:02 PM

Every college career center stresses networking as the key to landing the job you want.

Posted by: counselor | Apr 2, 2007 8:45:06 PM

But when you're trying to make partner, or make senior executive - these things can sometimes have an impact.

For the record, I should mention that I believe that for these reasons, trying to be a "corporate executive" is really not a good way of "becoming rich" (and I don't mean a mere Vice President-- everyone and his brother over the age of 30 working in finance seems to be a Vice President). While most of these people are "millionaires," most millionaires did not take that professional route in life. It's like someone said about being an actor-- good actors probably depend more on luck and connections to become successful. That's why you shouldn't go into acting if you're interested in making lots of money. Some professions reward hard work and merit more than others. It's a good strategy to pick the ones that do and avoid the ones that don't.

Posted by: Constantine | Apr 2, 2007 9:03:01 PM

that last post was so general that is can be called completely a waste of electronic input. for the record, most careers require a lot of work, and no work doesn't matter. no more than smarts or any of the other deluisions. honestly, I wish I could throw some of you into the middle of nyc, and say survive! you talk a good game- but lets test the generalities with actual ability to prove it.

Posted by: akaison | Apr 2, 2007 10:48:21 PM


Constantine,

I thought at least you had actually read The Millionaire Next Door, but it turns out you haven't done that either. And I would challenge that book's very foundation - I'm not clear on what the point of just barely crossing a million at a very advanced age is supposed to achieve. We're not even talking comfortable retirement here: a lot of these dried up corpses are pissing away their lives in retirements in North Armpit, Nebraska, saving their money for.......what, precisely? You get to blow your last few years in a high-end bordello in Rio (a million probably won't even cover Paris anymore)? Your kids get some money when they're 60+ themselves? I.E. these people aren't actually rich, they're just elderly burghers who by chance bought the right real estate.

Getting back to that childish book, most of the millionaires profiled in it did one of two strategies (besides inheriting some of it): grow investments (mostly in real estate in reality) through savings from a reasonably paying job AND/OR owning a business. It's fairly clear that owning a business requires some level of capital to open it. Of course, that silly book is largely silent on where that capital comes from. The reality is that capital comes from family members (i.e., your family already has a least some level of money) or savings. And a fair amount of savings usually have to come from......a reasonably paying job. And in America, where we've abolished manufacturing jobs, that reasonably paying job is primarily going to be a white-collar one (a few of the higher-end pink collars ones work). So, unless you're a nurse or government employee, you're going to be in the corporate trenches anyway. And if you get paid more in the corporate trenches, you'll have a lot more options of which business you can open.

And, of course, many, many businesses like those profiled in the book run entirely on social networking or are aided greatly by social networking. And sometimes social networking is cheap and sometimes it's expensive. Of course, that's precisely why a lot of these old misers in the book are so involved in their churches - they have no religion beyond money themselves, but churches provide cheap networking. Which doesn't work if you belong to a poor parish or poor denomination or a thousand other reasons - which is just the same as the barriers to joining the country club, except the country club barriers largely involve money, while the church will take it's pound of flesh by social conformity (and donations).

Posted by: burritoboy | Apr 2, 2007 11:00:30 PM

And, of course, many, many businesses like those profiled in the book run entirely on social networking or are aided greatly by social networking. And sometimes social networking is cheap and sometimes it's expensive.

And I would advise anyone seeking out a career in which hard work is rewarded to concentrate on ones where social networking is cheap. As I said, I wouldn't recommend that someone non-rich, non-white, under 6', and/or introverted attempt to get rich by trying to be a corporate executive. There are some careers that reward hard work and other careers that reward charisma, connections, and good luck. Anyone who picks the latter is setting themselves up for a fall.

You really want to point out how America gives its people a raw deal? Ok, the following:

(a) the breakdown of social bonds makes social networking more difficult. When you don't know your neighbors and don't have an extended family, you're screwed

(b) Breakdown of families makes starting capital more difficult -- where does the starting capital for a lot of those businesses come from? From parents who let their kids live at home until they saved up enough money to start that business

(c) rampant materialism that encourages people to consume when that consumption does not, contrary to your claim, result in any tangible economic returns (which you, strangely, seem to have bought into)

However, if you place specific value on your family, maintain personal connections instead of moving to an exurb, and avoid wasting your time and money trying to pretend to look successful in the hope that people will think you are successful, you can do well. TheStreet.com article was aimed at people that have at least enough money to invest in a stock portfolio. That implies perhaps enough money to start a small business or simply to save.

What stuns me, burritoboy, is that you write as though you don't actually know any rich people. You write about a conception of rich people that you have.

Posted by: Constantine | Apr 2, 2007 11:28:15 PM

Ezra:
The cartoon misrepresents Ayn Rand's view on labor. Rand favors working labor over corporate America when individuality is stripped. Howard Roark's position in a granite quarry highlights this issue.


Rigal:
"also, have you checked his website? it's a hoot..."

My website isn't meant for you, Rigal. The purpose is to share clippings from what I read with my friends at University of Michigan.


Steve:
"Those books are fiction."

True, they are fiction. Yet, there is theory behind the fiction, Steve.

Others:
"Randroid" or "Randite"

Way to escape debate. Should I use "socialists" or "liberal"? Naw, I don't pander to dumbness.

Back to Ezra:
I break a glass cup in my house. Should the government or I clean the mess?

I should.
The government doesn't know my house as I know my house. The government doesn't know 300 million Americans as they know themselves. More redistribution will lead to more bureaucracy. More bureaucracy increases dumb policies (ex: school busing) and social inequality. The only people who benefit in social governments are the leaders who control the social programs.

It's easy to share some grievances among the distraught, it's hard to establish a plan. All I hear are shouts without a reliable attack plan.

Steven

Posted by: Steven | Apr 3, 2007 12:05:20 AM

Hey Steven,

'sfunny that Ayn wrote mostly fiction. Why don't you cite Hayek or Smith in the future.

You do realize that once you libertarians get what you want, unions will come back. There's nothing uncapitalist about unions (unlike corporations, they don't need the state).

Big business loves redistribution, the welfare state and government intervention: these policies obviate the labor movement and also allows them to get a slice of the pie in the name of "job creation." Small biz gets screwed--and this is where you find most libertarians working.

Read Walter Russell Mead's Power, Terror, Peace, and War: America's Grand Strategy in a World at Risk. It's non-fiction, btw.

Posted by: Steve | Apr 3, 2007 1:11:53 AM

Hey Steve:

Okay, Steve, I'm not a Libertarian. Neither was Ayn Rand. My concern is focused on American progression. I abhor redistribution since it's unclear who controls the red tape. Whoever controls the red tape controls American progression through social programs. Having a collective government dictate the future of progress is mind-boggling.

The fact: Life has winners & losers. The winner knows the triumps of high achievement. The loser, if fighting, at least dared greatly. The cold and timid souls who know neither defeat nor victory is not worth living. [adapted from Teddy R.]

Again, theory stands behind Ayn Rand's fiction. I will place Mead's work on my reading list.

Steven

Posted by: Steven | Apr 3, 2007 2:11:47 AM

Way to escape debate. Should I use "socialists" or "liberal"? Naw, I don't pander to dumbness.

What debate? You popped in, dropped a sophmoric comment and skipped out. If you don't "pander to dumbness", you certainly practice it.

Posted by: WB Reeves | Apr 3, 2007 2:40:09 AM

The fact: Life has winners & losers.

I would encourage everyone to read that snippet over and over so there will never be any doubt as to how simple and oftern repugnant some self-described libertarians are. It is only the dull mind who measures a person's worth based on their income.

Posted by: simpletons | Apr 3, 2007 4:40:56 AM

From my experience those most likely to infer character judgements based on income are liberals. There is a pronounced tendency to assume that a rich person must by virtue of that wealth be rapacious, compassionless, mendacious and generally an alround asshole. As popular as the characterisation of conservatives/libertarians 'hating the poor' is I cannot recall many occasions when I have seen that characterisation borne out. I can however recall numerous occasions on which ive heard liberals make blanket derogatory remarks about 'the rich'.

Posted by: the invisible pimp hand | Apr 3, 2007 5:34:39 AM

And there's the inevitable personalization. As if the liberal / reality-based stance that the rich actually, on average, didn't benefit massively from already-existing structures is somehow a slur against rich people.

I'm never sure exactly how to get people to understand the concept of structures. When you are born, you are born into a certain class, a certain race, a certain gender, a certain social reality, and while there is room for mobility within within these constraints, they make up who you are and what choices you will have.

Maybe think about it this way. Let's say, just for kicks, that you grew up in a suburb. Imagine how difficult it would have been for you to join a street gang. You need to join early, as a runner or a lookout, but there aren't any gangs around - your mom would need to drive you. You need to know hte neighborhood, the slang, the major players, but you wouldn't have grown up there, so you'd be lost. Even if you had freely chosen from an early age that you'd be the best Crip you could be, it would have been well-nigh impossible to pull it off. There are structures in place when you are born that make certain choices far more likely or far more available to you. This conditions our entire lives, and the notion that "life has winners / losers" works entirely absent from an acknowledgement of these insanely obvious, obviously powerful structures.

Posted by: DivGuy | Apr 3, 2007 7:20:24 AM

i liked the comment about taxing intelligence, height, social connections, etc. Although it was sarcasm, it really brings to light the ridiculousness of trying to point out every inequality.

Social liberals are trying to pound a square peg through a round hole. It will never happen. However, just being in charge of the pounding makes the liberal left powerful, even if their goal is impossible and will never be achieve.....or perhaps that *is* the goal!!

Posted by: Fred Jones | Apr 3, 2007 7:46:25 AM

Next thing we know, Fred will be bragging about his 20 year old blonde supermodel girlfriend. I think the guy's losing it.

Posted by: merlallen | Apr 3, 2007 8:53:55 AM

he never had it. that's the point of why he has to try to find it here.

Posted by: akaison | Apr 3, 2007 9:11:59 AM

From my experience those most likely to infer character judgements based on income are liberals

Actually, liberals are more likely to infer character judgments based on someone's class, particularly a person's desired social class. That is different from income.

Liberals hold more ire for the small-busniess owner who fancies himself a rich Republican and mocks the lack of initiative on the part of his hard-working employees. They have comparatively less ire towards, say, Warren Buffett who, by all accounts, is a down-to-earth guy.

The inverse of this would be, of course, the Walton family -- despised by liberals -- vs. the owner of the local corner bodega -- someone who by all accounts works hard to make an honest living (not coincidently, the raison d'etre of the former is to drive the latter out of business).

I don't have very much problem making character judgments about the sorts of people who drape themselves in the trappings of wealth or what they perceive to be upper-class accessories. After all, they're doing so because that's exactly what they want me to do. It just so happens that I make negative character judgments about them because of it.

Posted by: Constantine | Apr 3, 2007 9:53:17 AM

Fred: The world isn't fair.

akaison: You're right, Fred. We need to help those people that aren't getting a fair shake and make it fair.

Fred: So how do you propose to do that?

akaison: Well, we can give them more rights based upon their skin color or if they're homosexuals.

Fred: Aren't you creating other inequalities by doing this? Doesn't that make others' rights less, relative to these groups.

akaison: Yes, but they deserve it.

Fred: So who decides who gets this favored status? Is there some kind of democratic process so we're all in agreement?

akaison: Shut up you fuckin' white racist bigot!!!

Posted by: Fred Jones | Apr 3, 2007 10:01:29 AM

Fred, do think making up imaginary dialogues wherein you put words in other people's mouths convinces anyone of anything? Or do you just do this to amuse yourself?

Posted by: WB Reeves | Apr 3, 2007 10:39:34 AM

since the liberal position is that class and other structures are a matter of luck (as much as anything) reinforced by those lucky- it's not a matter of morality.

a basic reading of history says mixing of morals with economics is a conservative argument- at least in America and Europe, since they are the ones who depend on the status quo being morally sound. the royals of europe believed they were divined by God. The protestant work ethic of America, manifest destiny and roughed individualism are all as much religious/moral arguments.

You can not say the same about the left or liberals. The issue of just are not about moral definitions of character. THey are about equality and fairness. Decided liberal constructs invented as a response to the aristocracy and other conservative positions. "I know you am, but what am I" maybe a cute way to debating technique with people who don't bother to read history such as you may find in the press, but I really don't think your arguments pass anything resembling historic fact.

Posted by: akaison | Apr 3, 2007 11:06:06 AM

"What stuns me, burritoboy, is that you write as though you don't actually know any rich people. You write about a conception of rich people that you have."

I'm from Saratoga and I spent most of my career managing money for a range of comfortable to truly wealthy people. If you don't know Saratoga, then you shouldn't be talking about wealth.

Posted by: burritoboy | Apr 3, 2007 12:30:23 PM

"You really want to point out how America gives its people a raw deal? Ok, the following:

(a) the breakdown of social bonds makes social networking more difficult.

(b) Breakdown of families makes starting capital more difficult

(c) rampant materialism that encourages people to consume "

We largely agree. But we need to understand why these trends have happened. Mostly due to capitalism and not primarily individuals' personal choices - thus far overshadowing TheStreet's comparatively trivial "advice".

Posted by: burritoboy | Apr 3, 2007 12:39:33 PM

WB Reeves:

You're more narcissistic than most 'Randites'.

"What debate? You popped in, dropped a sophmoric comment and skipped out...

Naw. My point is clear: It is unclear who controls the red tape in redistribution practices. Whoever controls the red tape effects American progression through social programs. Having a collective government dictate the future of progress v. an open market can lead to danger.

Simpleton:

It is only the dull mind who measures a person's worth based on their income.

I don't believe the Teddy Roosevelt quote had anything to do with a person's income.

Steven

Posted by: Steven | Apr 3, 2007 1:15:23 PM

WB Reeves:

You're more narcissistic than most 'Randites'.

"What debate? You popped in, dropped a sophmoric comment and skipped out...

Naw. My point is clear: It is unclear who controls the red tape in redistribution practices. Whoever controls the red tape effects American progression through social programs. Having a collective government dictate the future of progress v. an open market can lead to danger.

I doubt you know the working definition Narcissism.

As for your point being clear, maybe so. However, anyone less focused on their own agenda would have realized that it was not the point my comment was addressing. I was refering to your initial "advice" to Ezra.

If you object to the term Randite, I suggest you stop behaving like a religious enthusiast. The term is perfectly discriptive of someone who quotes Rand with the same alacrity as a red guard quoting Mao and who approaches her writings with a scholastic reverance for scripture that would have done a medieval monk proud.

Posted by: WB Reeves | Apr 3, 2007 1:34:47 PM

it's only unclear who controls the "red tape" in whatever you consider to be "redistribution programs" to those who decide not to investigate the operation of our social programs. there are these things we call "laws" which, among other things, are intended to assure a measure of transparency in government.

i now return you to your regularly scheduled class-baiting exercises, wherein i call steven a typical snot nosed, wet-behind-the-ears, privileged bourgeois randroid. to wit:

"Life has winners & losers. The winner knows the triumps of high achievement. The loser, if fighting, at least dared greatly."

knowledge of having dared greatly doesnt have much in the way of nutritive value. progressives, in a certain sense, are fighting to maintain the precious property "rights" that you and your ilk prioritize above all else, because if the horde of the great unwashed ever decided that the crumbs tossed their way were inadequate, you would likely find yourself without even the clothes on your back. you wouldnt find very much sympathy for your losses, either. it's happened before, and it can surely happen again.

what then, college boy?

Posted by: rigel | Apr 3, 2007 2:30:35 PM

cold and timid souls who know neither defeat nor victory is not worth living

Really? The guy who didn't "dare greatly" but got a decent job, had a family, and paid for his kids to go to college didn't have a life "worth living" unless he risked major failure and ended up lucky enough to triumph?

Posted by: Constantine | Apr 3, 2007 3:18:23 PM

Constantine, you've touched on what I see as a central contradiction in this particular brand of "individualism." Despite all the rhetoric, it doesn't actually respect the individual human being. Rather, it celebrates only its idiosyncratic notion of the "heroic" individual. Which, incidently, its adherents always identify with themselves. Those who don't aspire to such dizzying heights are'nt treated with much consideration.

Posted by: WB Reeves | Apr 3, 2007 3:30:09 PM

Rigel:
Short answer: 'Nutritive value' can only come from independence. No social body can dictate my value... There is nothing wrong with labor. Corporations strip people of their individuality. People should work labor instead of giving up their soul to a collective body. The problem: collective bodies/bureaucracy harms the 'nutritive value' of individuals. America should have less red tape to promote 'nutritive value,' than more.

What type of person am I when 'nutritive value' is dictated by society? ... a reflection, a copy? My soul is no reflection or copy, but my own. The only person I know is myself. I do not know what's good for your 'nutritive value'. I do not know what's good for WB Reeves 'nutritive value'. People, democrats, who say they know yourself better than you know yourself want something...

WB Reeves:
My concern is your lack of refute. The soapbox crumbles under "Randite," .. "behaving like a religious enthusiast" .. etc. etc. You offer little wisdom in debate. Just common taglines or catch phrases.

Posted by: Steven | Apr 3, 2007 3:51:08 PM

Constantine:
I can't put words into Teddy Roosevelt's mouth, but "dare greatly" could mean living a reasonable life. Having children and paying for college is very reasonable. The only person who know's your life is yourself--not me.

People don't need to risk "major failure" to be individualistic.

Steven

Posted by: Steven | Apr 3, 2007 4:07:47 PM

by "nutritive value" i was referring specifically to actual, you know, nutrients. both macro and micro. protein, fat, sugars, vitamins, all that stuff that a body still needs to live, and which doesnt come from idealism.

dumbass.

Posted by: rigel | Apr 3, 2007 4:11:56 PM

Rigel:

Sure, the government should hand out canned beans.

Steven

Posted by: Steven | Apr 3, 2007 4:18:00 PM

... um, no...the individual is responsible for their own damn canned beans.

Steven

Posted by: Steven | Apr 3, 2007 4:19:29 PM

WB Reeves:
My concern is your lack of refute. The soapbox crumbles under "Randite," .. "behaving like a religious enthusiast" .. etc. etc. You offer little wisdom in debate. Just common taglines or catch phrases.

Actually Steven, it is you who appear incapable of engagement. Largely, I think, because you don't bother to listen to what is being said by others. Too busy thinking about what you'll say next I suppose.

Tell me, do you really imagine that Ezra and others here are unfamiliar with the writings of Ayn Rand? Did you actually believe that if only he read The Fountainhead or Atlas Shrugged that he would slap his forehead and shout Eureka?

In any event, it was an exceedingly silly and pointless quip. One which undermines any standing you might possess for complaining of "taglines and catchphrases."

Here's a tip for you Steven. Outside the airless confines of the personality cult, Ayn Rand is considered an intellectual curiousity of mediochre proportions. Not that I suppose that will matter to you. Feel free to wrap yourself in the security blanket of your pretenses to "heroic" individualism, curl up and re-read the entirety her output. At least it will keep you off the streets.

The rest of us have better things to do.

Posted by: WB Reeves | Apr 3, 2007 5:48:25 PM

The author of the article is, I think, largely correct. 60% ("most") of households make at least $34K. If you start saving when you're 25 and want to be a nominal millionaire by the time you're 65, you need to put away a whopping $160 a month to reach that level, assuming a vaguely historical return.

Households making $34K a year by and large can afford $160 a month or $1900 a year, as evidenced by the way people making $32K a year do not live lives of unendurable poverty.

So yeah, most people really can be millionaires if they follow some simple advice. The catch is that being a millionaire at 65 isn't that impressive, and neither is a million dollars in 2047.

Yes, income inequality; yes, vicissitudes of fate. But for a lot of the people, a lot of the time, this is very much within the realm of the possible.

Posted by: Mike Kozlowski | Apr 4, 2007 4:53:05 PM

Welathy families think inter-generationally and program their offspring both culturally and finacially for success.

Here is something that just about every person working can do for their children that will guarantee them to be millionaires. Put 6K, no more, into a trust that will earn tax deferred interest the first year of your child's life. Upon retirement they should have close to a million if they nothing else.

Posted by: Fred Jones | Apr 4, 2007 5:38:39 PM

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Posted by: judy | Sep 28, 2007 5:48:44 AM

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