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February 01, 2007
New, Improved, More PC
Poor Jonah Goldberg. That's gotta smart. As Scott says:
If you ever want to explain to someone what "disingenuous" means, I would suggest "analogizing someone to the famously anti-Semitic Charles Lindbergh in the context a discussion of whether a particular line of political discourse is anti-Semitic while claiming that the analogy doesn't imply an attribution of anti-Semitism." As we can see, even Goldberg can't possibly believe that nonsense.
It's all pretty wack. For a bit more on this, Goldberg's LA Times column describing the controversy must be read to be appreciated.
First, Yglesias argued, "everything" Clark said "is true" and "everybody knows it's true" so it can't be anti-Semitic. And, second, given that Israel's defenders will call any criticism anti-Semitic, there's no point in getting worked up about it.
The first is a rich and fascinating claim. Truth is a defense against slander, but is it a defense against bigotry? Liberals rarely agree when it comes to defending honored members of the coalition of the oppressed. Just ask former Harvard President Lawrence Summers, who questioned whether innate ability explained why fewer women succeed in math and science and who was defenestrated from Harvard as a sexist for his troubles.
And so forth. The column, could have seriously engaged a pretty serious argument, but it mostly contents itself with pointing out hypocrisy among PC-types, even though I don't remember either Wes Clark or Matt Yglesias helping to "defenestrate" Summers. What's so rich about the attack, though, is that Goldberg pretty clearly believes the focus on the legitimacy rather than the content of Summers' remarks was a bad thing, but has been awfully dedicated to deploying precisely such a strategy here. He's made the occasional attempt to argue with weirdly distorted, strawman versions of the claims, but has mainly been interested in connecting Matt and Clark to Buchanan and Lindbergh, both of whom are largely known for being anti-semites.
In the end, this has always been a fairly simple argument: There are some powerful, wealthy, Jewish lobbying associations and funders that exercise a lot of power on the foreign policy front and are pushing towards a decidedly hawkish stance on Iran. It's really not an accident that both Bill Clinton and Newt Gingrich have called AIPAC the most effective lobbying organization in town.
Now, as a lobbying organization, AIPAC has every right to try and convince folks to invade Iran, and everyone else has a right to notice that they're doing so. But if you disagree, I'd think you could make one of two legitimate arguments: Either they're not pushing a hawkish agenda against Iran, or they are pushing that agenda and it's not a bad thing. Conversely, comparing the speakers to Charles Lindbergh and Patrick Buchanan -- even as you distance yourself from those who call Lindbergh an anti-semite -- is not a useful approach. It's one that hijacks icons of bigotry and tries to refocus the conversation on whether the speaker is anti-semitic, rather than whether their claim is true. Now, maybe Goldberg has had a conversion to PC-sensibilities and in fact believes there are true things that no one should be allowed to talk about without being smeared, and today's column was a roundabout way of expressing that epiphany. People change, I guess.
Update: Sam has more on the unbearable lightness of Goldberg's approach.
February 1, 2007 | Permalink
Comments
I agree that writers should be more cautious about smearing the character of those they're arguing against. It seldom works out well. It tends to be wrong, for whatever reason, and to distract from whatever truth might be in the critique. A good lesson for all of us.
Posted by: Sanpete | Feb 1, 2007 2:51:06 PM
It should be noted that Summers' comments were pretty crap as science goes. He wasn't up on much of the most recent evidence in behavioral genetics, he had a deeply out-of-date understanding of socialization, and he called for "future research" as if tons of work hadn't already been done showing that most of what he was was crap.
That was really what bugged me. For a guy who obsessed about getting people to study sciences, and a guy in a position to make major decisions about hiring practices based on gender, and a guy working for, you know, Harvard, he was just incredibly uninformed.
Posted by: DivGuy | Feb 1, 2007 3:10:23 PM
Why are you guys giving so much attention to a person who is demonstrably an idiot and a well established water carrier for all that is wrong with America: the Republican Party.
Posted by: gregor | Feb 1, 2007 3:15:03 PM
Ezra and Jonah are, um, pals from way back, gregor.
It should be noted that Summers' comments were pretty crap as science goes.
Well, that's what some people thought. I was never persuaded that his comments were so far off in terms of the evidence of possible explanations, which was his topic. These matters still aren't settled either.
Posted by: Sanpete | Feb 1, 2007 3:24:03 PM
So, if I understand this right, Jonah passed a note in Period 4 Chemistry that Matt is a jerk and now we have to have a fight in the parking lot after school... right?
Posted by: weboy | Feb 1, 2007 3:39:17 PM
There are three broad hypotheses about the sources of the very substantial disparities that this conference's papers document and have been documented before with respect to the presence of women in high-end scientific professions. One is what I would call the-I'll explain each of these in a few moments and comment on how important I think they are-the first is what I call the high-powered job hypothesis. The second is what I would call different availability of aptitude at the high end, and the third is what I would call different socialization and patterns of discrimination in a search. And in my own view, their importance probably ranks in exactly the order that I just described.
His citations regarding "different availabilty of aptitude at the high end" depended mainly on standardized test scores - whose gender gap has closed three times over in 30 years - and which are obviously problematic measure of "natural" gifts.
The "high-powered job hypothesis" is that women just don't choose high-powered jobs.
He somehow separated this question of choice from the question of socialization! What women and men choose is a topic that he considered to be separate from their socialization.
And it is a fact about our society that that is a level of commitment that a much higher fraction of married men have been historically prepared to make than of married women...
Another way to put the point is to say, what fraction of young women in their mid-twenties make a decision that they don't want to have a job that they think about eighty hours a week. What fraction of young men make a decision that they're unwilling to have a job that they think about eighty hours a week, and to observe what the difference is. And that has got to be a large part of what is observed.
The issue of what choices people make is not separate from socialization, it's the single most important aspect of socialization. There are just so incredibly many studies done on how women's choices are proscribed in our society, and how women are structurally not encouraged to continue their careers. To separate choice from socialization shows a nearly comical level of ignorance in the topic.
When he talked about socialization, his examples were (a) identical twin studies and (b) his daughters playing with trucks. Identical twin studies, obviously, are neither here nor there in issues of gender difference. And by citing his children, Summers implied that the only important aspects of social construction are how parents raise their children, and he seemed to think that because he tried to be "gender-neutral", then his daughters had been socialized in a gender-neutral environment, and their interest in trucks was probably "natural".
His statements were under-supported, over-argued, and demonstrated a clear ignorance of the topics at hand.
There is a scientific position to be had that genetic gender difference plays some role in these topics. Steven Pinker has articulated this position, though he's pretty much on the (acceptable) fringe of his discipline. That is not what Summers did. He just went out there and bloviated.
Posted by: DivGuy | Feb 1, 2007 3:45:53 PM
I'm just glad that Matt Yglesias is getting his name and work mentioned in the LA Times.
Posted by: Garuda | Feb 1, 2007 3:53:28 PM
DivGuy is right. More importantly, whether or not one agrees, the critique of Summers was not "he's right that women are genetically inferior, but you shouldn't say it"; it was "Summers doesn't know what he's talking about," so Goldberg's analogy is null.
Posted by: Scott Lemieux | Feb 1, 2007 4:42:50 PM
DivGuy, I agree, and think Summers would agree with your comments for the most part, except that they're at odds with what he said.
To separate choice from socialization shows a nearly comical level of ignorance in the topic.
I don't think so. He doesn't say that the hypotheses don't overlap and influence each other, of course, but then one doesn't necessarily reduce to the other either. He treats them separately for purposes of explanation.
Identical twin studies are typically used to show a genetic component to intelligence and such, which is relevant, even if it doesn't itself show a gender-based genetic difference.
I'm not sure his statements were under-supported or over-argued for the context in which they were given, which wasn't a scientific treatise. It was more musing and provocation (intended to in a good way, of course--things to think about). I don't think the important mistake he made was in his explanations, but in his underestimation of the sensitivity of the topic and, perhaps as importantly, the way that sensitivity would inflame people who already didn't like him for other reasons.
Posted by: Sanpete | Feb 1, 2007 4:53:20 PM
Ironically, Summers is also loose with the anti-semitism accusations:
Profoundly anti-Israel views are increasingly finding support in progressive intellectual communities. Serious and thoughtful people are advocating and taking actions that are anti-semitic in their effect if not their intent.
-- Lawrence Summers, 17 September 2002
Posted by: joeo | Feb 1, 2007 5:54:29 PM
If the comments that Clark made and Matt endorsed were so innocuous, why don't you report them accurately? Clark didn't say
"There are some powerful, wealthy, Jewish lobbying associations and funders that exercise a lot of power on the foreign policy front."
He said the "New York money people" control US foreign policy:
When we asked him what made him so sure the Bush administration was headed in this direction, he replied: "You just have to read what's in the Israeli press. The Jewish community is divided but there is so much pressure being channeled from the New York money people to the office seekers."
Oh, and by the way, AIPAC hasn't called for war with Iran. They say "strong economic and diplomatic sanctions imposed by the international community can still stop Iran before it is too late."
Posted by: Ragout | Feb 1, 2007 8:09:48 PM
How are those two statements different? I'm genuinely curious.
Posted by: Ezra | Feb 1, 2007 9:22:04 PM
While we're talking about twin studies, you should know that Cyril Burt's twin studies on the heritability of intelligence were fraudulent.
General consensus nowadays, taking into account pre-natal environment, is that environment generally trumps genetics.
Posted by: Carlos | Feb 1, 2007 9:42:11 PM
How are those two statements different? I'm genuinely curious.
They're substantively the same, but they can surely be interpreted differently.
Look, here's an example:
1. "He's articulate and brilliant and fresh and charismatic, and he's also the first African-American presidential candidate with a real shot at winning. It's like a storybook."
2. “I mean, you got the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy. I mean, that’s a storybook, man.”
Posted by: Korha | Feb 1, 2007 10:07:44 PM
And since I can't edit my post, let me just say that I don't think Biden is really a racist and I don't think Wes Clark is an anti-semite. I don't think either any of those qutoes are really racist or anti-semitic.
But I do acknowledge that they can interpreted that way.
Posted by: Korha | Feb 1, 2007 10:10:21 PM
While we're talking about twin studies, you should know that Cyril Burt's twin studies on the heritability of intelligence were fraudulent.
Carlos, your link doesn't conclude this. It concludes that Burt's reputation is sullied (whatever that might mean) and just presents the conflicting views.
From your second link:
Without the equal environment assumption, the twin method is transformed into a measure of the differing natures of MZ and DZ environments. Because the equal environment assumption is of doubtful validity, the twin method is, contrary to the beliefs of its supporters, a tool enabling us to gauge the striking environmental and psychological differences between the MZ and DZ twinships. There is little reason to believe that it tells us anything about genetic factors.
Pure baloney. All the loss of the EEA results in is uncertainty about what effect is being observed. Likewise, the conclusion of this little paper doesn't follow at all:
There is little reason to accept that studies of twins, whether rearedtogether or reared-apart, measure anything more than environmental influences, error, and bias.
The piece at the third link, by the same author, doesn't get any further, it appears.
None of these pieces supports the assertion that environment generally trumps genetics. They only raise some legitimate (and some less legitimate) issues about twin studies.
Posted by: Sanpete | Feb 1, 2007 11:14:14 PM
By the way, the link to the right page on Cyril Burt is here.
Posted by: Sanpete | Feb 1, 2007 11:43:20 PM
How are the two statements different? Clark's statement is much stronger: not only do the NY money people have a lot of power, but if you want to know whether the US will invade Iran, the only thing you need to know is what the rich NY Jews think. That, plus the phrase "New York money people," make it sound like a conspiracy theory about devious Jews controlling things from behind the scene.
The main point is that Clark's statement was over the top in attributing enormous power to Jews, but I think the use of coded language ("New York money people") actually makes it more offensive than if he had said wealthy right-wing Jews. Why is he using coded language if he's not making some outrageous charge? It certainly sets off alarm bells in people who are familiar with the way elite colleges used to have "New Yorker" quotas meant to keep out Jews, for example.
Posted by: Ragout | Feb 2, 2007 1:28:17 AM
Ragout, some people just want to be offended. Clark didn't say anything implying devious Jews controlling things from behind the scenes; he didn't use code words (what's the point of code when the sentence is explicitly about the Jewish community?). You weaken your position by taking it to such unreasonable extremes.
Posted by: Sanpete | Feb 2, 2007 2:05:53 AM
Sanpete,
Would you lecture an African-American about how calling Obama an "articulate negro, a credit to his race" was actually a compliment?
You're free to say "New Yorker" when you mean Jew, or "Oriental" when you mean Asian, or put little statues of Black jockies on your lawn. But those aren't good ways to make friends, and all the condescending lectures in the world aren't going to change that.
Posted by: Ragout | Feb 2, 2007 2:28:28 AM
Ragout, how come my ideas on this are condescending lectures while yours are not? How many times do you want Clark to use the word "Jewish" in one sentence? There was no code, and the other associations you're throwing in are just your own.
If you want to see our condescending lectures, including mine, about Biden's remark, see here. You can also see the condescending lectures of at least one African-American there. And here is the thread where Clark's remark was discussed, just so you'll know how condescending I really am. Or you can just check them out to get some other ideas.
Posted by: Sanpete | Feb 2, 2007 2:59:40 AM
You sound so much more reasonable on the Biden thread, where you criticize him for using "racist code words," and write "I also agree with others that Biden should have been more careful, that these comments will cause him more grief than good, and that he could have made similar points with different words and accomplished his goals.
Posted by: Ragout | Feb 2, 2007 8:20:44 AM
"Defenstrated from Harvard"?
Someone needs to stop reading his SAT words shower curtain.
Posted by: Doh | Feb 2, 2007 8:46:19 PM
the difference between biden and clark, is that the later is telling the truth, and biden is telling a perception- do you see how biden's comment may be racist or is it still confusing to you?
Posted by: a | Feb 3, 2007 11:57:19 AM
what i mean by truth- is that there AIPAC is a powerful lobby, and it does have this as their interest. whether or not obama is the only articulate black guy to ever run, or whether or not many of the other things biden says is true, is totally subject to your own personal interpretation. the power of the conservative jewish lobby (i specify "conservative" because they don't represent all) is measureable by their ability to influence policy and politicians. in the case of the obama comment the only measurement is your own personal beliefs.
Posted by: a | Feb 3, 2007 12:01:18 PM
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