Ezra Klein: Small Talk

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January 05, 2007

Small Talk

But honestly, small talk is like sliding down a cliff of sheetglass, desperately reaching for a crag or niche to grab. Give the other person some purchase, an opinion to disagree with, a piece of gossip, some critical thought to evaluate, an emotion to share. Offer something genuine, with some heft.

I find small talk excruciating, all the more so because its rhythmic, deadening script offers so little room for escape into more interesting topics. Trapped in pleasantries, I'll spend most of my mental energy trying to figure out how the conversation can hook into something more dense and enjoyable, and often remain incapable of getting it there. Which is odd, because I have lots of opinions on controversial, upsetting, conversation-worthy things. But you can't follow up, "yes, I like my job," with "how do you feel about armed revolution leading towards a classless, socialist utopia?" So I love Megan's description of small talk: "Like sliding down a cliff of sheetglass, desperately reaching for a crag or niche." That's exactly how it feels.

January 5, 2007 | Permalink

Comments

small talk is what people do because they are too afraid to be honest. once you cease to care, you stop doing small talk.

Posted by: akaison | Jan 5, 2007 12:44:13 PM

"how do you feel about armed revolution leading towards a classless, socialist utopia"

I like it.

(Intended as a comment on smalltalk, which includes the post)

Posted by: bob mcmanus | Jan 5, 2007 12:57:05 PM

But Ezra, it's so unseasonably warm out. What's up with that?

Posted by: Jeff | Jan 5, 2007 1:00:06 PM

Real intellectuals can't be bothered to engage in common chit-chat & gossip of regular mortals.

Posted by: DRR | Jan 5, 2007 1:15:08 PM

Not everyone shares that feeling when they are engaging in small talk. I know people who only ever engage in small talk - with their family, friends, etc. They must not feel that desperation that I feel, which Megan described perfectly, otherwise they would never speak at all.

Posted by: maurinsky | Jan 5, 2007 1:17:35 PM

Lots and LOTS of people I know feel this way. The strangest thing about it to me is that there seems to be some strange taboo around turning the conversation to anything serious or substantive. It feels vaguely rude. But why? Virtually no one I know enjoys empty chit chat. So why can't we just collectively agree that it's ok to dive into other things?

Posted by: Realish | Jan 5, 2007 1:20:21 PM

I get this a lot around my family and my wife's family.

"How is your day?"

"Good, except for the Republicans doing X,Y,Z."

followed by blank look.

Posted by: Robert P. | Jan 5, 2007 1:33:38 PM

I heard a recent story on NPR about James Brown (RIP) wherein the correspondent described his meeting with James Brown backstage at a Siegfried and Roy show. Stuck in small talk, JB exclamatorily asked this man's friend "What do you think of science?"

The friend, stunned, had no immediate response, whereupon Mr. Brown exclaimed "Well, when you think of something, write me a letter!" and went on to other topics.

If I could keep a straight face, I would surely add "What do you think of science" to my small talk toolbox.

Posted by: luedtke | Jan 5, 2007 1:42:58 PM

When someone asks "How are you?" always answer negatively. Inevitably they ask why, and there is your in. I do it all the time. Works like a charm.

Posted by: skewter | Jan 5, 2007 1:49:50 PM

Did you ever see the hilarious Star Trek: Next Gen episode in which Data is trying to learn how to engage in small talk? It's definitely worth a look.

Posted by: Rebecca Allen, PhD, ARNP | Jan 5, 2007 1:52:20 PM

My impression is that people that don't like small talk generally don't like people very much. I am included in both categories. Of course, we all like a select group of people, be people in general, not so much.

Others, including some of my reletives, who generally like people very much enjoy small talk, they both enjoy and care about the trivialities in other peoples lives. I sometimes suspect that that makes them better people then I am.

Posted by: Dave Justus | Jan 5, 2007 2:09:32 PM

Every great once in a while, I'll meet someone who is also self-aware about small talk, and the two of us will get into a mutual game of extending the small talk for as long as possible with as many inanities as we can think of. That's a fun use of small talk.

Posted by: Megan | Jan 5, 2007 2:11:00 PM

Seems like the art of conversation is going by the wayside. A good conversation can start in "small talk" and progress in all sorts of directions. But it is an activity that requires actively listening to what the other person is saying, not just waiting to pounce with your own witty statement.

Posted by: CParis | Jan 5, 2007 2:13:18 PM

An insistence of authenticity comes with a price. Without small-talk (a widely recognized stock of "safe topics"), it would be impossible for strangers to engage each other in conversation. The availability of these topics is what permits people from different backgrounds to converse without risk. Without them, you'd never be able to talk to that guy you see every morning at the bus-stop. Small-talk is good for the public sphere; it's the channel through which people from different backgrounds get to meet each other.

Posted by: Julian | Jan 5, 2007 2:14:08 PM

small talk is exhausting.
i prefer silence to transparent conversations.

Posted by: jacqueline | Jan 5, 2007 2:53:43 PM

Agree with what CParis and what Julian said. I hate endless small talk, but can be offended if someone immediately upon introduction wants to know my deep thoughts on the Brazillian ecosystem. I think small talk for me is useful in gauging the others persons interests and whether it's worth it to even engage speaking on more expansive topics. Going into conversations guns blazing usually tells me how self-centered that person is, or how insecure they may be by needing to express opinions ad nauseum, when perhaps I don't care about their opinion to the extent that they do.

Posted by: kdub | Jan 5, 2007 3:09:00 PM

I'm going to speak in favor of small talk. Small talk is to insignificant talk as individuals are to worthless interchangeable commodified units of mass blocs. If your philosophy encourages the idea that individuals have merit, then there's something to be said for the idea that low-keyed conversation about topics on the peersonal level can be worthwhile too. People don't just have doctrines; they have memories, emotions, and aesthetics, along with a lot else, and this is all fodder for small talk - what we're listening to and liking, what we're reading for the first time or re-reading and how old favorite comfort-food reading seems long after first encounter, good luck and bad in trying new stores, you name it.

Far too many of the world's decisions are already made by people who don't understand other human beings or care about this. Most of us here would agree on the perils of the inhuman detachment of a Bush or Cheney. For fuck's sake, why do you want to be like that? But if you want to actually understand people, you have to, well, talk to them, and listen to them. Many of us are prone to rant about the perils of the punditariat's isolation...and then some of you are here making a positive virtue of your own alienation. It'd be one thing if you professed outright not to care about quality of life, the variety of experience, unexpected needs and wants, the potential for sound inspiration and leadership talent to turn up outside the existing elites, and all that. But most of you claim to have some respecct for others' lives. Well and good. But then why should anyone else in the world have any respect for your assertion, if it turns out to only be about theories and aggegrates?

In addition to learning a lot and often having unexpected fun making small talk with the people I deal with, I find that it has a measurable effect on my chronic depression and immune problems - about a 25% reduction in the quantity of medications I need in a week when I can spend at least three hours in low-keyed conversation with folks out and around town. (It's only 10% or so reduction when I get out without the small talk.) I speculate that the effort of syncing with someone else's mental rhythm helps kick me out of the kind of self-feeding groove so common in depression.

But what it really comes down to is that I keep having a good time and learning interesting things through the low-key exchanges about this and that. My life's better off for having made the effort to cultivate the skills it takes.

Posted by: Bruce Baugh | Jan 5, 2007 3:19:29 PM

PS: My thoughts on the feasibility of armed revolution leading to a classless socialist utopia are very strongly shaped by what I know of the current experience of the people around me, which I've learned a lot about via, yes, the demonized small talk. I suspect that someone who cannot comfortably engage in casual conversation with strangers is likely to have grossly erroneous views about likely outcomes of radical political change, in very much the way that someone who cannot speak a country's languages is unlikely to fully understand its people.

Posted by: Bruce Baugh | Jan 5, 2007 3:23:17 PM

Yeah, small talk is like sex. Just the same tired things, over and over and over.

Posted by: idlemind | Jan 5, 2007 3:27:58 PM

Dammit, Idlemind, I wish I'd thought of that. Well, I can swipe it and claim it later. :)

Posted by: Bruce Baugh | Jan 5, 2007 3:28:53 PM

I think DRR, Dave and Bruce hit on a key point in different ways. Small talk can be "small" either because one or both people don't really want to communicate at all, so no interest is generated, or because one or both find the topics insignificant and thus dull. In some cases the latter, and sometimes even the former, can be overcome by just taking a genuine interest in whatever it is the other person wants to talk about, or you can get them to talk about. Their kids, their job, whatever. It can be its own interesting world if you want to go there. Wanting to go there is related to liking people in their ordinary lives. It's not as painful as it might seem. Of course, sometimes people really aren't going to engage you, or me at least, no matter what, and that's dull, dull, dull.

Posted by: Sanpete | Jan 5, 2007 3:31:06 PM

for a few years, there was a bumper sticker in southern california that read something like this:
"life is great, business is fantastic and my children are terrific."
....there is a lot of small talk that has that kind of insincerity to it. a facade.it reminds me of the christmas card letters that i sometimes receive which are a kind of small talk...a litany of remarkable and wondrous accomplishments that have happened to this person. a kind of talking "at" someone, rather than "to" them...
...i have been at parties where people have engaged in small talk and were looking beyond me, stopped in the middle of a sentence to greet another person....
the level of disinterest or superficiality can feel very diminishing.
.....on the other hand, there are genuine, gentle, warm and comforting interactions that occur with neighbors, co-workers or friendly strangers that do not feel transparent or superficial. there is a warmly genuine quality to them..very often just a thoughtful smile with a straightforward and caring gaze, or a word of affirmation or a curious and interested question, and it is shared in kind.
i dont think of that as small talk.
i think of that as real and meaningful talk...
i never think that "real talk" needs to come from the mind...it just needs to come from the heart.
it means someone is "really listening", if even for a moment, and we are "really listening" and there is an exchange that may be very brief, but is very heartening,just like a warm smile.

Posted by: jacqueline | Jan 5, 2007 4:04:52 PM

"I find small talk excruciating, all the more so because its rhythmic, deadening script offers so little room for escape into more interesting topics."

Ahhh, it's just a skill like any other. The easiest method is to ask open-ended questions to the other person, nod feigning interest. Most people love talking about themselves (I personally hate it) so you can trundle along for 10-15 minutes with minimal mental effort until an opening comes up which might actually result in an interesting conversation topic.

And, Ezra, as a future DC mover and shaker, you've got to learn the art of name-dropping.

Posted by: No Longer a Urinated State of America | Jan 5, 2007 4:13:06 PM

Truthfully, I enjoy smalltalk because I get to find out what kind of jobs people have, how they ended up where they are, how the person is socially or professionally connected to the event we're both at, etc. Maybe I just like to hear people tell stories.

I think part of learning to do smalltalk correctly is figuring out what you would enjoy learning from such an interaction. For me, that involves figuring out how people are socially connected to one another and, since I'm new to DC, finding out what people do around here for fun or what interesting things are going on around here. Also, I'm quite good on homing in on what sort of mutual interests I might have with people I meet in such casual social settings (though one such interaction, involving the discussion of a book that had recently come out, left the person I was speaking with (mistakenly) convinced that I had been a former patient at McLean's psychiatric hospital, since I seemed so familiar with details of the place).

Posted by: Constantine | Jan 5, 2007 4:20:41 PM

Small talk is how you build the intimacy to have big talk.

Posted by: cathy | Jan 5, 2007 4:26:01 PM

I think the definition of small talk is off here. I'm talking about superficial, surfacey conversation, along the lines Jacqueline describes. The sort of meaningful explorations of lives and feelings and experiences that Bruce refers to is about as deep, big, and meaningful as conversation gets. The issue here isn't that I want to always talk about politics (I'd frankly like to talk about it somewhat less than I do), it's the irritation of rote conversations where no one actually reveals much of anything at all.

Posted by: Ezra | Jan 5, 2007 4:53:41 PM

Someone probably already mentioned this, but what jacqueline was saying about sincerity reminded me of how deadly dull a lot of seemingly big talk can be. That there's a meaty topic (by ordinary standards) doesn't mean there will be anything interesting said about it. That's especially likely to be a problem with people who don't listen well or who, as politicians often do because of the constant repetition, treat big talk like small talk (in the bad sense).

Given what Ezra just said he meant, I suppose talking about world hunger or the trade situation with Mexico or whether a God who loved us could create this world can all be small talk.

Posted by: Sanpete | Jan 5, 2007 5:02:52 PM

Ezra, I very much mean to defend exchanges about things like the weather, whether the burgers are good here today, and like that. Even the generic "How's it going?" can take on meaning with a simple "Pretty good! Started off missing buses right and left, but I'm on track now" or "Okay, though I'll sure be glad if I can find where I put my umbrella" or whatever. Even very difficult subjects can be handled in a courteous way: "Okay, I guess. Visiting Dad in the hospital today, and thinking about good times we've had visiting in these seats going to the aquarium or wherever. Each time I can bring him a little story like that, it really helps his mood." That last one got me half a dozen really funny stories about experiences riding the line from my apartment to the train station for the trip down to see Dad in his final months, and what felt like good wishes from people who had in common with me just being locals who'd like to reduce the total of misery in the world.

Or, then again, maybe I just genuinely want to share some pleasure. "Good! One of those days where a bunch of things are going right" or "Excellent! I'm ahead of the boss at work for a change, and he's one who's generous about acknowledging it" or what have you.Even the most basic "Hanging in there" can go fine with a smile.

It's not that every interaction of this sort is particularly meaningful. It's not that I even want the majority to be. it's that a bunch of individually light-weight exchange provide the best framework I know of in which to ever discuss anything more significant.

Posted by: Bruce Baugh | Jan 5, 2007 5:45:02 PM

Bruce,

I think you hit on the point of small talk. We're social creatures and we benefit from interacting with other people. I think most of us who goof off on the blogosphere tend to be introverted. Its easy to get lost in your own thoughts and if you don't take a break and make a connection with another person, its easy to "think" your way into melancholy or anxiety.

I'm not a natural "small talker" but every person I meet I ask myself, what can I learn from this person? Its just like picking up women really (except you don't need the self-confidence critical to that endeavor). The secret is not focusing inwards on your thoughts but rather putting your focus outside your head, on the other person. You'll meet some damned interesting people if you make small talk with the guy sitting next to you on a plane or a bar stool. Just hanging out, I've met:

An army vet taken POW during the Battle of the Bulge; a Manhattan interior designer who spent half his time in South Florida, trying to make the mansions of the noveau riche slightly less gaudy; a single flight attendant who carried a list of the required traits of her future husband (it had 110 items), a retired Lockheed engineer who built spy planes with Kelly Johnson; a Marine sniper who told me about flying into a foreign country as a tourist to meet someone from the US Embassy with his sniper rifle (I guess diplomatic pouches are pretty big); a 9th grade dropout/millionaire preacher who, after a nice discussion about the Gospel, told me his secret to making a fortune (its a damned good idea too, so I'll keep it under my hat) and many many others.

Let the other person set the topic and you'll never be at a loss of words and you'll be happier for the experience. If you want to tell the world your thoughts of politics, well that's what blogs are for. :o)

Posted by: beowulf | Jan 5, 2007 6:28:26 PM

bruce...
your comments are very poignant and true.
as i think i might have mentioned here before, for quite a few years, i was a counsellor and supervisor on the midnight shift of a suicide and crisis hotline.
....though there were many crisis calls and suicides in progress, many times, callers at two in the morning did not always want to talk about a crisis. they just wanted to talk about the weather or a memory of a loved one, or some small thing that had happened that day, or a bad cold they had, or something causing anxiety that would be happening in the morning.
they just wanted to know that someone was "listening", with kindness and caring.
these short and simple calls were the difference between someone lying in bed awake all night...or just feeling that someone was listening, if even for a moment...it settled them, and helped them find some peace to fall asleep. to know that there was a "voice".
.....another soul "in agreement."
those calls, though brief and anonymous...just voices in the night...were some of the deepest, warmest and most meaningful exchanges i could imagine.
...not lofty conversations, but heartfelt, human and poignant exchanges...that made all of the difference.

Posted by: jacqueline | Jan 5, 2007 6:32:44 PM

I think that the key to big, deep conversations with strangers, is to learn the art of small talk. I grew up with a dad who could talk to anyone, in any walk of life. And he could guide any conversation to either a topic of his choosing or someone elses - but it never stayed on small talk long. It is often quite hard to actually manipulate the conversation that way, but it really isn't always necessary. Sometimes the small talk is ok by itself - important even.

Bruce mentions missed busses, I'm going out on a limb in assuming he uses public transit too. Using PT is a lot more fun when you can get the knack for small talk. Sometimes it doesn't go any further, either one of you get's off or it just dwindles. But I enjoy them just the same, because as a generaly positive person, I can usually get people to smile at least. It makes me happy to brighten others days. even just a little. I especialy appreciate it when I'm in a bad mood or over stressed, and someone else brightens my day - it doesn't take much to make a huge difference sometimes. As Bruce mentions.

Posted by: DuWayne | Jan 5, 2007 8:24:05 PM

DuWayne: Yeah, I can't drive safely. Or rather most of the time I can, but random small seizure-like episodes kill my reflexes. Not such a good deal. (And living with this kind of crap is part of why I'm on the lookout for good encounters with the rest of the world. Isolation and misery suck.)

Posted by: Bruce Baugh | Jan 5, 2007 8:29:42 PM

Jacqueline, that sounds intensely demanding and rewarding. And I'm fascinated that so many people would make the effort to contact folks like you for that kind of light touch. It...it feels right, somehow, in a way that's hard for me to articulate.

Posted by: Bruce Baugh | Jan 5, 2007 8:44:44 PM

I hate small talk. I never have it lead into interesting conversations. And as a college freshman, if I have to hear "what dorm are you in? oh yeah? my roommate's older brother's sophomore roommate was in that dorm. so what classes are you taking?" again, I may just pull a Dick Cheney and shoot someone in the face.

"But what if someone's in a really interesting class and they tell you something awesome they learned from it?" Yeah. That'd rock. If it ever happened. Which it never does.

Also: when I'm asking people I'm already friends with what classes they're enrolling in next semester, or how their days have been, or what IS up with this weather, it doesn't feel like small talk. And some might say that small talk is how you build up friendships... but that's never really been my experience. Most of my friendships have begun with conversations far too random to qualify as small talk (complaining about teachers is always a good one).

Posted by: Isabel | Jan 5, 2007 9:18:14 PM

thank you kindly, bruce.
for someone to allow us to walk with them in their fear or suffering, is to be on holy ground.

Posted by: jacqueline | Jan 5, 2007 9:58:34 PM

"My thoughts on the feasibility of armed revolution leading to a classless socialist utopia are very strongly shaped by what I know of the current experience of the people around me"

Jeez, I was kidding, already.

Posted by: bob mcmanus | Jan 5, 2007 10:05:44 PM

yup, it is always good to have a kidder in the house,
especially a spirited marxist scholar!

Posted by: jacqueline | Jan 5, 2007 10:37:28 PM

"yes, I like my job."

"how do you feel about armed revolution leading towards a classless, socialist utopia?"

"uhhh, that is my job!"

(I watched "La Guerre Est Fini" just the other evening.)

Posted by: David | Jan 5, 2007 10:56:17 PM

Most of us here would agree on the perils of the inhuman detachment of a Bush or Cheney.

I guarantee you that Bush is totally freakin' awesome at small talk, and Cheney probably ain't bad.

Posted by: Consumatopia | Jan 6, 2007 2:23:07 AM

I suspect that someone who cannot comfortably engage in casual conversation with strangers is likely to have grossly erroneous views about likely outcomes of radical political change, in very much the way that someone who cannot speak a country's languages is unlikely to fully understand its people.

Extroverts have fucked up the world way worse than introverts. The problem is that extroverts are good at finding some dead introverted theorist to blame for the holocausts they would have committed in any event.

I don't like talking to strangers. I'm willing to admit that I'm most likely a terrible person who doesn't feel like hearing the quiet desperation of other men. But some of the most decent people I know also hate talking to strangers. Weighing them against the Dubya's of the world is no contest. Some viciously evil people are probably fun to have a beer with.

Posted by: Consumatopia | Jan 6, 2007 2:45:11 AM

I generally consider myself a small-talk hater because I think I suck at it. However, you ever notice how you only think it's small talk if they're not your friend?

Posted by: scarshapedstar | Jan 6, 2007 3:32:25 AM

Consumatopia, you'd be wrong on both counts about Bush and Cheney. Bush is from all accounts good only a kind of bluff display of dominance that some specific subcultures (like very rich frat boys) find appealing, but that strikes most others as bullying; he has a very narrow range of interests and apparently no curiosity about anything outside them. As for Cheney, long-term staffers seem to agree that he's simply completely uninterested in other people's thoughts or feelings. If memory serves, these things have been discussed here, along with other aspects of their personalities.

And as Beowulf suggests with his list, there's a lot to hear besides "quiet despearation". If that's all a small-talker hater ever hears, some of that may be because a lot of folks can recognize when they're being condescended do or flatout dismissed. (Some can't or won't, and I do agree that there's a real problem sometimes in dealing with the ones who won't shut up. But they're fairly rare, in my experience.)

Posted by: Bruce Baugh | Jan 6, 2007 4:12:15 AM

Bruce, what say about Bush and Cheney isn't what I've heard from "all acounts," or even close. I hear it mainly from their political opponents.

Posted by: Sanpete | Jan 6, 2007 4:56:02 AM

So I love Megan's description of small talk: "Like sliding down a cliff of sheetglass, desperately reaching for a crag or niche." That's exactly how it feels.

To get back to this part, I've been finding it hard to relate to this simile. For one thing, there's all this motion in it, whereas I feel more a sense of being stuck in such situations. I guess I don't feel that desperation either, just some mild discomfort. I suppose I seldom have much at stake in such interactions. You two must have some high-powered socializing, or something.

Posted by: Sanpete | Jan 6, 2007 5:06:01 AM

Upon reflection, I request permission to revise and extend my remarks. :)

I was reminded in conversation with friends elsewhere (World of Warcraft guildmates) that I am fortunate in some ways to be an independent freelancer. There are a lot of business environments where one has mandatory time spent in allegedly light-weight interaction that is actually very significant, because authority figures use it to form judgments of subordinates' worthiness on this or that criterion. So one has to maintain the air of fluff while one's promotion chances and such are hanging in the balance. That does suck, that's worth getting pissed off about, and it's very different from the sort of small talk that others of us were talking about, where we're dealing with others in situations where there really isn't anything so crucial at stake.

Sanpete's comment reminded to post. Yeah, actually, Sanpete, there are folks who have to do "high-powered socializing" at office parties, departmental gatherings, and like that.

Posted by: Bruce Baugh | Jan 6, 2007 7:05:26 AM

Yeah, actually, Sanpete, there are folks who have to do "high-powered socializing" at office parties, departmental gatherings, and like that.

I'm beginning to think that Ezra if referring to different things regarding his discomfort with smalltalk than the rest of us. I'm quite sure that Ezra would never get a date if he were genuinely uncomfortable with the act of engaging in light conversation as a means to get to know someone. However, there is a form of smalltalk in which the goal for the participants is to size each other up and jockey for social dominance. I can see not only how people would want to avoid such situations but also how this would make Megan's simile rather apt.

Posted by: Constantine | Jan 6, 2007 8:57:10 AM

When we say Hi there, how're you doing? or Hey, lovely day out, huh? to our neighbor in the hallway or on the sidewalk, we're not really asking them for a run-down of how things are going in their life, apartment or job; rather, we're acknowledging the other human being. We're acknowledging that we are friend and not foe, that we care. It's called presymbolic language, and it's a vital part of human communication. As others mentioned, small talk is often a lead-in to large talk, something I'd hope for if I was at a cocktail party (too much talk of weather and sports, and I'm outta there). But sometimes it remains just that: small talk, and off we go to our respective train stations and appointments.

“When words are used as vocal equivalents of expressive gestures, we shall say that language is being used in presymbolic ways.”--S.I. Hayakawa, the late English professor, Senator, and author of Language in Thought and Action, which I highly recommend.

Posted by: litbrit | Jan 6, 2007 11:16:33 AM

There might be something to the idea of two forms of small talk, but I think some might be defining the "bad" kind too narrowly. It includes not merely jockeying for social dominance, but also maneuvering for social acceptance. It's not merely submission and insincerity I hate, but conformity, kitsch, banality, and the mundane.

A lot of people wonder how egalitarians can hate small talk. I simply don't think people should be encouraged to wear masks of social acceptability. Social acceptability in fact vastly understates the problem--it isn't just people masking the controversial sides of themselves, but even the interesting sides of themselves. Not just politics or sexuality, for which even I would bow to the prudence and modesty of initial concealment--but art, science, philosophy, and even irony and transcendence. I believe in infinite human potential. Unchecked conformity holds that potential back.

People act like it's small talk haters who have contempt for their neighbors, when I think it's just that us haters have had so many bad experiences with it because others have contempt for us. There are people who hate what is outside the ordinary--for whom general interest is not merely shallow but narrow.

One scene sticks with me as a child, not for it's emotional significance but because it was so inexplicable. A group of kids had completely excluded me because of my social awkwardness and my academic performance (the latter not ever being anything to crow about--slightly above average). I heard one of them once saying "that kid over there is even more stuck up than Consumatopia". I never understood that--the weird habit of people in thinking they've been excluded by the people they've excluded.

Posted by: Consumatopia | Jan 6, 2007 1:47:15 PM

Bruce, what say about Bush and Cheney isn't what I've heard from "all acounts," or even close. I hear it mainly from their political opponents.

Heck, even political opponents acknowledge Bush as the guy they'd like to have a beer with.

Posted by: Consumatopia | Jan 6, 2007 1:50:13 PM

consumatopia...that was a very beautiful, honest and thoughtful post that you wrote.

....i suppose that we can all agree that conversation as a way of expressing our thoughts, and even more complexly, our feelings, is as complicated as any way of trying to reach out to others...no matter the size or depth of our thoughts, we still are secretly hoping that someone hears us, sees us, acknowledges us...that our presence, feeling, knowledge,can touch or illuminate someone, whether it is a very small or very big thought....even if we use a mask of "big ideas", it is still with the hope of touching another person...
of being heard.
....even a simple hello can sometimes be a mighty act of courage...and sometimes just receiving a simple hello can be the best thing that has happened all day.
it can be an act of validation. it is a way, even in to say, "i see you."
.....just as in the old testament, i think...
the phrase.."hi neinu"...means "here i am, Lord."
every human being needs to be "seen".
the truth with all communication, is that each of us, wishes not to be invisible...that even in the smallest of ways, we must feel that we matter..that someone cares about our thoughts,our feelings, our being.
...we cant always use gestures, hugs, a touching of hands...but simple words, that are not vacant or mindless, can convey a world of meaning and importance for others.....
in terms of small talk that is not small at all, sometimes an honest compliment or acknowledgement to another person can be something they remember for the rest of their lives.

Posted by: jacqueline | Jan 6, 2007 2:47:20 PM

Heck, even political opponents acknowledge Bush as the guy they'd like to have a beer with.

I actually don't know political opponents who say this. This is the topic of a whole other thread, and I have a theory about why I and many others disagree on those who would view Bush as friendly. That aside, I think you're both incorrect about this and that some of those who claim they would like to have a beer with Bush are saying this from a skewed perspective of Bush's "presented image."

Most accounts seem to show Bush's smalltalk/socialization habits as a male version of the "mean girl" archetype (as I said, though, that's completely orthogonal to this thread, though tangentially related to the smalltalk-as-social-jockeying issue).

Posted by: Constantine | Jan 6, 2007 4:12:52 PM

Most accounts seem

If you mean most accounts in sources frequented by liberals, I'm sure that's true. There's a remarkable difference depending on the source. Similar with Hilary Clinton. Some people seem to polarize perceptions.

Bush's personality was fairly well liked by Democrats in Texas when he was Governor.

Posted by: Sanpete | Jan 6, 2007 6:02:46 PM

Argh, I started writing a comment with my own opinion of small talk, and a contrast between Ezra and me, and thoughts about human interaction... and it's two days later, so never mind.

I did have specific thoughts about a couple of things, though.

When we say Hi there, how're you doing? or Hey, lovely day out, huh? to our neighbor in the hallway or on the sidewalk, we're not really asking them for a run-down of how things are going in their life, apartment or job; rather, we're acknowledging the other human being. We're acknowledging that we are friend and not foe, that we care.

I think this gets to the real problem with small talk, though: it fails to do that stuff. It's so rote and careless that it's basically just a Pavlovian reaction to crossing paths with a person you have a middling degree of familiarity with. To make up an example, if I say "Hey, lovely day out, huh?" to the sales rep who works on the other side of the building from me as I'm waiting for the coffee to brew, I might as well be saying it to the secretary of someone I meet with regularly while I'm waiting, or my sister's boyfriend. They don't get the message that I care, just that I find silences awkward, maybe also the message that I don't think their time is valuable.

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