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January 19, 2007

A Charles Murray Reader

Charles Murray has another execrable article in the Wall Street Journal arguing that most children aren't genetically capable of reading well (it's possible these inferiors can, with great persistence and dedication, learn to sound words out), and so we should stop trying to teach them. Indeed, Murray argues that, "It would be nice if we knew how [to raise intelligence], but we do not. It has been shown that some intensive interventions temporarily raise IQ scores by amounts ranging up to seven or eight points...There is no reason to believe that raising intelligence significantly and permanently is a current policy option, no matter how much money we are willing to spend." But here's Howard Gardner, summarizing portions of The Bell Curve:

[Murray and Herrnstein] note that IQ has gone up consistently around the world during this century--15 points, as great as the current difference between blacks and whites. Certainly this spurt cannot be explained by genes! They note that when blacks move from rural southern to urban northern areas, their intelligence scores also rise; that black youngsters adopted in households of higher socioeconomic status demonstrate improved performance on aptitude and achievement tests; and that differences between the performances of black and white students have declined on tests ranging from the Scholastic Aptitute Test to the National Assessment of Educational Practice.

The mendaciousness amazes. Murray not only knows better, he's said so publicly. Anyway, the fine folks over at Cognitive Daily offer a quick slap at Murray's ignorance of cognitive development research, the very field he professes expertise in, but we should probably go a bit farther. Murray comes up every once in awhile, and I'd hate to begin each rebuttal from scratch, so here's a quick resource for readers trying to get a grasp on a debate that's now decades old:

The Bell Curve Flattened: As Nicholas Lemann points out, "The Bell Curve [Murray's most famous work] was not circulated in galleys before publication. The effect was, first, to increase the allure of the book (There must be something really hot in there!), and second, to ensure that no one inclined to be skeptical would be able to weigh in at the moment of publication. The people who had galley proofs were handpicked by Murray and his publisher...The result was what you'd expect: The first wave of publicity was either credulous or angry, but short on evidence, because nobody had had time to digest and evaluate the book carefully." Lemann, helpfully, returns to the tome a few years after publication, and looks into the peer-review of its claims: "The Bell Curve, it turns out, is full of mistakes ranging from sloppy reasoning to mis-citations of sources to outright mathematical errors. Unsurprisingly, all the mistakes are in the direction of supporting the authors' thesis."

Does IQ Matter?: Not nearly so much as Murray wants you to think. The best research shows that IQ is a relatively weak predictor of future success. In this article, two top authorities on cognitive development show that standard measures of self-discipline are much more important than raw IQ numbers. "Duckworth and Seligman conducted a two-year study of eighth graders, combining several measures of self-discipline for a more reliable measure, and also assessing IQ, achievement test scores, grades, and several other measures of academic performance. Using this better measure of self-discipline, they found that self-discipline was a significantly better predictor of academic performance 7 months later than IQ."

Cracking Open the IQ Box: Howard Gardner, reviewing The Bell Curve not long after its publication, explains: "the links between genetic inheritance and IQ, and then between IQ and social class, are much too weak to draw the inference that genes determine an individual's ultimate status in society. Nearly all of the reported correlations between measured intelligence and societal outcomes explain at most 20 percent of the variance. In other words, over 80 percent (and perhaps over 90 percent) of the factors contributing to socioeconomic status lie beyond measured intelligence. One's ultimate niche in society is overwhelmingly determined by non-IQ factors, ranging from initial social class to luck. And since close to half of one's IQ is due to factors unrelated to heredity, well over 90 percent of one's fate does not lie in one's genes."

Uncontroversial? Duncan and Digby explain the rhetorical mendaciousness used to buttress the scientific malpractice.

Not Just From The Left: To make sure these criticisms -- most of which are methodological -- aren't dismissed as mere defensives from PC lefties, here's Thomas Sowell eviscerating the book.

Wired: Katherine has a good suggestion on what Murray should be consuming in order to correct some of his addled assumptions.

David Brooks Gets Into Trouble Trusting Murray: Another example of Murray's inability to do math.

The 99th Percentile of Dishonest: Kevin Carey details Murray's habit of asserting that no one has answered question X, then pretending that he, in fact, has. He also notes Murray's condescending glorification of craftsmen occupations.

Murray's Appeal: Rob Farlyey explains, The successful in any position like to believe that they win because they are good. The less capable are left behind because they are, well, less capable. Accepting that racism and misogyny corrupt our institutions means abandoning this meritocratic fantasy...If our institutions are not meritocratic, then our presence at the top of those institutions may not be evidence of our merit. It is far easier, of course, to simply shake our heads and accept that women and people of color, with the exceptions of some prominent individuals, just aren't quite as good as the rest of us, the rest of us being white men."

Return of Murray: And lastly, here are some more recent comments on Murray from me, focusing on why journalists take him seriously and what sort of ideas he actually pushes. "Murray discovered and skillfully exploited a fairly foundational flaw among journalists -- their generalist nature. Most commentators are not wonks, and they're definitely not statisticians. Therefore, when faced with one of Murray's opuses, they're dazzled by the array of statistics, multivariate regression analyses, and other impressive techniques he uses, the flaws of which the reviewers are often ill-equipped to assess. Murray incapacitates them by talking over them, and few writers want to risk a humiliating display of ignorance by engaging his dense substance. So there’s a lot of ambivalence as to his conclusions, but much enthusiasm for his boldness and intellectual courage, virtues that self-important commentators feel well-equipped to identify. "

January 19, 2007 | Permalink

Comments

Our school district takes students from a nearby failed urban district on a voluntary basis. Some of these kids come into second grade in our district not knowing how to read at all. (this district has a goal of 100% reading by end of first grade; our previous district, with a higher disadvantaged population, had a goal of 100% reading by end of kindergarten).

My spouse volunteers as a classroom assistant, and this year has been assigned a lot of 1-on-1 reading tutoring and enrichment. He was just commenting the other day how exciting it is to only be in January and already seeing some of these kids powering up almost to grade-level readings skills (again - from zero!).

"Not capable" - baloney. Some of the boys had never had a book about trucks or a comic book read aloud and explained to them. When my spouse sat down and did that they started running after him every time he came in the door.

Cranky

Posted by: Cranky Observer | Jan 19, 2007 11:21:26 AM

Thanks for the links. I read Murray's three articles this week and intended to look for rebuttals. You saved me a lot of time.

Posted by: Emma Zahn | Jan 19, 2007 11:22:41 AM

Ezra--thanks for the one-stop shopping!
Cranky--isn't it amazing how well any kid can learn with 1-on-1 tutoring? But, still, the President says it would be crazy to spend 1.2 trillion dollars on tutoring for inner city kids. But it's fine to spend it starting a civil war in someone else's nation.

Posted by: Redbeard | Jan 19, 2007 11:42:08 AM

Redbeard,
I don't want to make the mistake of thinking anecdotes (even my own, superior ones) are data. But I still have to make my own judgements, and my own experience in the corporate world and through close involvement with many aspects of the K-12 educational world is that 95% or better of all humans can achieve a _minimum_ of a 10th grade reading/math/general comprehension level given the right motivational spark and resources. What that spark is for each person is different and can be decidedly non-traditional ("You know, I could make you toolroom supervisor if you would let me teach you a few things about triangles") but when it hits the person takes off - often years after (mutually) rejecting the standard education system[1].

Whenever I hear or argue with the Murrayites my blood boils (per my first paragraph), but they are so persistent and fairly good in their misuse of stats that it is possible to start doubting oneself when against them. Which is why I also appreciate (per Ms. Zahn above) Ezra's collection of solid, verifiable refutations in one spot.

Cranky

[1] Not implying any fault on either side here - the traditional system was/is designed for mass production, and it generally works, but by definition such a system will not work for some people.

Posted by: Cranky Observer | Jan 19, 2007 12:10:29 PM

"Ezra--thanks for the one-stop shopping!"

Yup. That's a helluva rundown.

Posted by: Petey | Jan 19, 2007 12:18:45 PM

I would argue that Murray's points should be ignored simply because he uses such a limited definition of "intelligence" - whatever that means. Howard Gardner takes on our social conception of intelligence in Frames of Mind, arguing that what we view as intelligence should be redefined as one of many intellectual faculties. According to his research in cognitive development, IQ is a socially biased measure of linguistic and logical mental faculties. If you're interested in learning more about intelligence, check out Robert Sternberg's Theory of Tri-Archic Intelligence.

Posted by: Carlos | Jan 19, 2007 12:46:15 PM

One of the unfortunate aspects of the Murray brou-ha-ha is that the issue of how raw IQ scores are improved by better nutrition (a result most visible in third-world studies) gets caught up in the issue of race and IQ. IQ is not "meaningless," but instead is subject to a variety of meanings, and while hardly perfect can act as a shorthand for a variety of different useful metrics (including intellectual development permitted within specific constraints). An effort at improving nutrition (especially addressing specific deficiencies in specific populations -- such as sub-Saharan Africa) could make a big difference for millions of people. Instead, we end up arguing about how Charles Murray is using IQ as a bludgeon for specific political reasons. Ironically, given his purported intents, he's set back (way back) the use of IQ to do any actual good.

Posted by: IP Guy | Jan 19, 2007 12:51:13 PM

Regarding the issue of IQ as a predictor of success: when people claim it is or is not, are they trying to model success as a monotonic function of IQ? And how do they define success?

For whatever worth IQ actually has as far as quantifying this hard to define notion of intelligence, I would imagine that, e.g., annual income would be highly related to IQ, but not in a monotonic way: I would imagine people with above average IQs would be earning more than people with average or below average IQs, because whatever IQ measures, it is measuring some aspect of intellectual fitness (if the measure is culturally biased, so what? earning potential would be effected the same way by whatever causes that cultrual bias ... if the measure doesn't measure genetics but rather upbringing, again, so what? and for the same reasons) to be "successful" in society. OTOH, the high IQ crowd, unless they've married well and/or have sold out to spread manure for the powers that be (a la the think tank inhabitants of the right), can achieve nice, upper-middle class lifestyles as professors or computer programers or such, but they aren't going to become rich doing so. Thus, I would expect that in modeling (monetary -- as that's what likely is gonna count for the crowd who's most interested in this sort of thing) success as a function of IQ, one would need to use some model with a correction term such that, for high IQ levels, predicted success goes down as a function of IQ.

Posted by: DAS | Jan 19, 2007 1:14:39 PM

Murray incapacitates them by talking over them, and few writers want to risk a humiliating display of ignorance by engaging his dense substance.

Sorry, not good enough. Shockley & Jensen did the same thing, & were generally viewed with skepticism. (Certainly, The New Republic never devoted an issue to their work.) It was a change in the political climate that made the difference.

The right has pushed these ideas politically from time immemorial, & they've always had their preferred experts. (See old issues of National Review.) After WW2 & the civil rights revolution, they temporarily were discredited, but with the recession of racial liberalism, they're back.

Posted by: KH | Jan 19, 2007 1:40:54 PM

On IQ: When I was in middle school my teachers were pushing for me to take the standard courses because they had decided that I wasn't smart enough to take the advance classes based on my grades up to that point. I pushed, and got, a battery of tests that rather than testing on use of words actually focused on the ability to analyze complex spacial relationships, understand patterns and comprehend complicated data. After taking that test, the teachers stopped questiong whether I should be in the talented and gifted program. I am just pointing this out to say that from my own personal experience Cranky is right about the fact that we each learn and understand differently.

Posted by: akaison | Jan 19, 2007 1:43:10 PM

I wish Charles Murray would go on Colbert or The Daily show and make those assertions. It burned me up that he got away with that racist crap back in 1993.

Posted by: d0n camillo | Jan 19, 2007 1:43:40 PM

Are IQ and success linked? How many people say their boss is smarter than them?

Good post, and good comments.

Posted by: American Citizen | Jan 19, 2007 2:07:31 PM

This comment is made in honor of my late, eponymous aunt who taught first grade for 45 years in Chicago in a number of schools serving students from different socio-economic and racial backgrounds.

She would tell you that the statement, "most children aren't genetically capable of reading well," is a lie. She love to teach students to read - little in life gave her as much joy and her life was one characterized by joy. She maintained to her dying die that if the teacher was well trained and willing to work hard and supported by a principal and d.s. who valued the time committment teaching all students to read well required, the number of students who could not learn to read would be exceedingly small indeed.

Her three sisters, all Chicago school teachers who taught in schools serving a range of socially, economically and racially diverse students, unanimously and emphatically agreed with her. But, they'd always point out that her opinion mattered most, because it was based on actual experience. I think the four of them would have rolled their eyes at Murry and then asked with a sly Irish grin - "is he a teacher, or is he from downtown?"

Posted by: Pudentilla | Jan 19, 2007 2:25:06 PM

Again with the charges of mendaciousness. Ezra, when you're accusing someone of dishonesty, you should at least try to properly represent their views and do better than cherry-pick views that agree with your own in response--that isn't the most intellectually rigorous approach.

most children aren't genetically capable of reading well (it's possible these inferiors can, with great persistence and dedication, learn to sound words out), and so we should stop trying to teach them.

Murray doesn't say anything like what's in the parentheses, and the last part is misleadingly ambiguous in a way that seems to say more than what he does as well. He's not against trying to teach these kids. He's against trying to teach them in a way that ignores their limits.

You quote Murray:

It would be nice if we knew how [to raise intelligence], but we do not. It has been shown that some intensive interventions temporarily raise IQ scores by amounts ranging up to seven or eight points...There is no reason to believe that raising intelligence significantly and permanently is a current policy option, no matter how much money we are willing to spend.

The quote you give from Gardner in response doesn't show that Murray has contradicted himself. Without having read The Bell Curve, I can pretty well guess that the 15-point rise in IQ (meaning IQ scores, I assume) over time reported in the book wasn't due to the "intensive interventions" Murray refers to in his new piece. The rest of what Murray said must be read carefully in the context of his arguments. First, he is speaking there of raising "intelligence," not IQ scores, which he explains represent both test artifacts and a real underlying general intellectual ability he calls "g." It's the latter he's referring to in the second part of the quote as "intelligence," as he makes clear when he directly addresses the point you rebut him with, immediately following what you quote from him:

Nor can we look for much help from the Flynn Effect, the rise in IQ scores that has been observed internationally for several decades. Only a portion of that rise represents an increase in g, and recent studies indicate that the rise has stopped in advanced nations.

Gardner's quote doesn't rebut that.

Murray gives arguments making a prima facie case that we aren't paying enough attention to limits on intelligence, and that we've come close to maxing out what we can do in raising intelligence. He could well be right on the first point; I rather doubt he's right about the second. But to know, his arguments would have to be dealt with more forthrightly and carefully than they have been here.

Posted by: Sanpete | Jan 19, 2007 3:07:36 PM

I find the left's virulent reaction against Murray amusing, but probably from a different angle than some might expect. Many times the author of this blog and many of its posters proudly proclaim their membership in the "reality based community" and occassionally condemn the "christianists" and other faith-based communities. But isn't the reaction to Murray's central thesis--intelligence is heritable--really a faith-based reaction? If you deny the existence of God, then isn't the only way anything gets passed is through the genes? Are you saying that while genes give you your hair color, eye color, proclivity to breast cancer, heart disease, down's syndrome, schizophrenia, depression and a myriad of other health isssues but they can have no affect on intelligence? IF intelligence is heritable then there HAS to be differences among people based on their parents and family groups. Smart people reproducing with other smart people will have on average smarter children than dumb people reproducing with other dumb people. The only way to deny this is to say their are no smart or dumb people, which again many posters here insist their are plenty of dumb people out there, since they occassionally call me dumb, but I digress.

If you buy evolution, then the only way ANY trait gets passed on is through the genes. If you accept the fact that there is a variation in intelligence, Murray has to be right generally if not specifically in saying there is a bell curve on intelligence. I do not see how this can be controversial to the "reality based community" unless they are claiming evolution worked out so we all have equal intelligence.

My own view is that God has indeed endowed us each with our own gifts and talents and all people our equal in the eyes of the creator. But alas, I am a rabid christianist.

Posted by: Scott | Jan 19, 2007 3:13:46 PM

> Smart people reproducing with other smart
> people will have on average smarter children
> than dumb people reproducing with other dumb
> people.

I am no geneticist, but I can tell you right off the bat that even if this mysterious, undefinable, ever-mallable "g" is genetically heritable, it don't necessarily work that way. As an example, the French, German, and Russian nobility all tried the "breed smart to smart" theory and the end result was unviable inbred lines, with the defects vastly overwhelming any purported benefits in intelligence. Even in characteristics which clearly _are_ strongly heritable, such as hair color, a family of 9 children (I grew up in a Catholic neighborhood; so sue me) will show wide variation and some unexpected outcomes.

Or for a simpler example: Columbian coffee is good. Kenyan coffee is good. Mix Columbian and Ethopian coffee and you get: undrinkable battery acid.

But in any case, my personal observation is that most humans use at most 40% of their native "intelligence" (again, whatever that is: this "g" thing seems to mutate faster than a family of fruit flys trapped in a nuclear reactor - and it always fits the polemicist's need). Environment, drive, determination, luck, and, hey, /starting point/ generate the ultimate outcome.

Cranky

Posted by: Cranky Observer | Jan 19, 2007 3:48:00 PM

Along with my degree in politics amd law, my other degree is in Biology, especially focused on genetics.

Scott- stop embarassing yourself. The writer in question may be engaged in social science, but he's most certainly not engaged in science.

Science requires the observation of a phenomenon, followed by theories to explain the phenomenon that can then be tested through experimentation from which the scientist can discern measurable results to prove or disprove the description of the thing one is examining.

That's not happening here. No where close to it. Because its not happening here- it's not a science, no more than those who used to measure the bumps on people's skull to measure intelligence were in engaged in science.

The problem with the left and right (notice that I say both) when it comes to science is that you don't understand it so you try to reframe the narraritive of actual science in terms that you do understand- attempts to explain social phonemon through pseudo science. I have seen this on the discussion of human sexuality as well. On the left you have the queer theory people who askew the science in favor of theories on gender and sexuality from the social sciences. On the right, you get similar results.

The result is that like Scott- you tend to embarass yourself. Please stop. Intelligence is a hard thing to measure not because there aren't any underlying biological elements to it, but because you are dealing with a complex of both biological and environmental foces that are intertwined.

Trying to figure out the biological component is next to impossible to do ethically in terms of genetics, etc because of what one would have to do to figure out the answer.

For the record, we have only recently uncovered the full human genome. As James Watson, one of the fathers of genetics, recently said, this mean we are just begining. On the subject of cancer which is probably far easier to understand than something like intelligence, it is the case that we will have to wait a while to understand just those genes and how they work and how to make vaccines specific to individual cancers on a genetic level. This will be a cake walk compared to figuring out precisely what is the biological component of intelligence and how it works with nuture.

Posted by: akaison | Jan 19, 2007 3:49:11 PM

If you buy evolution, then the only way ANY trait gets passed on is through the genes.

Thanks for the capitalization, it makes it a lot easier for us to realize just how bonkers you are. This statement is the only real point of your long tirade, and it's utterly ridiculous. Were your parents Christianists like you? If so, did you inherit it genetically? Humans — well, some of us, maybe you should try it some time — can do this crazy thing called "learning".

But isn't the reaction to Murray's central thesis--intelligence is heritable--really a faith-based reaction?

No, it's not. Yet another example of Simple Answers to Simple Questions (TM). Murray made a much more specific statement than you seem to think, and as Ezra's links show, he made very weak arguments for it. Objecting to that is the exact opposite of a faith-based reaction. Also, atrios said something like this more than a year ago.

Posted by: Cyrus | Jan 19, 2007 3:50:46 PM

Ah yes, if you don't believe bad, methodologically flawed "science," you don't believe in science.

Posted by: Ezra | Jan 19, 2007 4:07:09 PM

the observation of a phenomenon, followed by theories to explain the phenomenon that can then be tested through experimentation from which the scientist can discern measurable results to prove or disprove the description of the thing one is examining.

Akaison, this does seem to be happening here. There is the observation that some people are more able in intellectual tasks, and there are theories and experiments to refine and test the models. It may not be as precise and simple as physics often is, but that doesn't mean it isn't science. Anyway, I agree with about the complexity of it, and I agree that Scott has mixed things up, but I think you exaggerate the unscientific nature of the study of intelligence.

Posted by: Sanpete | Jan 19, 2007 4:24:57 PM

For the record, I find Murray's conclusions generally abhorrent, but again from a humanist perspective rather than a scientific one. Whether he is scientifically right or wrong I don't know since I have neither the time or inclination to go over his book or conclusions. How about I try it this way:

Could Murray be right? Is it possible?

If you accept evolution completely, doesn't it follow that evolution is occurring for the human species right now and different populations of humans are evolving in different directions? If the Andean Indians were genetically 20,000 years removed from the Spaniards when they came, isn't it possible they went in different genetic directions? Therefore, isn't it possible that Andeans were smarter than Spaniards or vice-versa?

I'm certainly not a creationist or even a strong ID'er, just think God or whoever gave us some sort of spark that made us all human. But I fail to see how one can deny it is at least possible there are genetic differences among population groups. I personally do not think there are, but it is because of a religious perspective.

Posted by: Scott | Jan 19, 2007 4:28:07 PM

Scott, if your point is that some of the opposition to Murray isn't based on science but something more like faith, you're right. But I think you exaggerate the degree to which those who don't accept a religious account must accept anything much like Murray's views. You don't have to be religious to see that there are important nurture issues in intelligence. The debate with Murray is over the degree of genetic cause and its significance, both of which he tends to extreme views on.

Posted by: Sanpete | Jan 19, 2007 4:51:50 PM

The Flynn effect has stopped, Howard Gardner is unreliable, and the wide body of research summarized in The Bell Curve are fully supported and not considered controversial by cognitive scientists. Not that you care, or know anything about this subject.

Posted by: Johnny Thunders | Jan 19, 2007 4:57:07 PM

Sanpete- you don't understand what the scientific method is. I am not trying to be a smart ass, but you really don't.

Scott- there is no way he can prove or disprove his claim scientifically-that's the point scientifically speaking. When you talk of evolution you are talking about science not the humanities. And no you can not flip science as you are doing into a humanist discussion. That's just bizzare.

He's just making a random idealogical claim. I can claim that the universe is a circle but I would have to have some means of proving it for the argument to be taken seriously in scienctific terms. I could claim its a circle in the humanities and argue it in circles, but that's not proving anything- no more than you can prove an ought. You are also misuing the word humanist- I believe you mean social research.

Even on a social science level its poor methodology as Ezra points out. What are the controls here? What provides us a methodology of knowing these things on intelligence. You would have to have all variable be the same except the one being tested. How is that even possible here with the influence of socio cultural economic and political forces not to mention personal psychology at work.

Posted by: akaison | Jan 19, 2007 5:01:29 PM

Akaison, feel free to educate me, but you're very far from making your point. Your next step might be to show how I misunderstand.

there is no way he can prove or disprove his claim scientifically

Baloney. His claims are empirical and can be tested.

You would have to have all variable be the same except the one being tested.

You're confusing an ideal with the reality of science. A great deal of science, including physics, doesn't always completely isolate variables. Yet we learn important things.

Posted by: Sanpete | Jan 19, 2007 5:51:41 PM

sanpete- look it up. honestly, it's not my job to teach you anything. but if you are going to use something incorrectly it's my right to tell you that yuo are. if you want to understand the scientific method, it's application, etc, it's easy enough to look up.

Posted by: akaison | Jan 19, 2007 6:22:17 PM

You can't say just what I got wrong, even? I can't look that up. It's in your head somewhere.

Posted by: Sanpete | Jan 19, 2007 7:18:10 PM

Akaison, you make some good points, mainly that testing "intelligence" is extremely difficult due to biological and environmental factors being linked, which many people on this thread have not picked up on. However, we have to except that social phenomena cannot be tested with the same meticulously controlled experiments we use in the fields of physics, chemistry, etc.

In the social sciences, we propose a theory or a model to explain a phenomena. Depending on whether or not the data we collect can explain any correlations between the variables we are observing, our conclusions either weaken or reinforce the proposed mosdel.

Don't knock this approximation of the scientific method, because it has to be used in some of the fields that are considered hard sciences, such as geology, astronomy, and evolutionary biology. These sciences deal with phenomena that occur at a pace too slow for humans to test on.

And, seriously people: read about the latest findings and trends in cognitive science. Namely, check out McClelland, Pinker, Sternberg, and Gardner. You'll forget that the concept of g ever existed.

Posted by: Carlos | Jan 19, 2007 7:26:19 PM

McClelland, Sternberg, and Gardner hold minority views outside the consensus of what most cognitive scietists believe, at odds with recent research, the trend in evidence is away from their positions, and their claims have never been substantied in the way g has.

Pinker's views on IQ are largely in agreement with Murrays.


Posted by: Johnny Thunders | Jan 19, 2007 7:54:49 PM

I'm not sure if anyone else commenting in this thread has actually read The Bell Curve and substantial criticisms of The Bell Curve (e.g. the collection of rebuttal essays The Bell Curve Wars). I have, along with all three of Murray's pieces in the WSJ. I do not think this makes me uniquely qualified to comment by any means, though I think it may make me somewhat more qualified to comment on the actual arguments that he expressed, and that others have criticized.

The core of what Murray is arguing in the three WSJ essays is not dependent on his work in the Bell Curve. Cognitive science determined long before Murray that there is a curve of a certain measure of human intelligence (denoted often as g, and measured as IQ), and that the curve is roughly a normal distribution. Murray is arguing in the WSJ pieces that some aspects of our educational system ignore that fact. His argument over the three pieces could in some sense be boiled down to the idea that children are not infinitely plastic, and some of them are not capable of being theoretical physicists, or college professors, or lawyers, because their IQs are simply not high enough to be good at those jobs. And society should not want more bad lawyers, because we need people to do other things, too, especially if they can be good at those other things. He also argues that we need to design our educational system to better meet the needs of the children in the middle, who will not end up as lawyers or doctors or PhDs, because they represent the vast majority of children (IQs 90-110 are close to two-thirds of the population).

To me, this seems like quite a democratic goal - to teach to the majority of children's capabilities. It does not mean that we should not challenge them. We should. But it also doesn't mean that everyone needs to take physics with calculus in high school like I did, because most people (unfortunately including me) will never need that. What most people need to learn are basic life skills, like reading and math, along with whatever they need to participate in our democracy. They can then have the option of choosing a vocation, if they choose, and earn a good living from that. They shouldn't have to try to learn college-level math and literature, because it will frustrate them without helping them. I doubt that Mr. Murray would want to stop children from taking those classes based on their IQ, as they do in the UK, but he does want us to pay attention to the needs of the majority, and to stop trying to create an educational system that functions only for elites.

Posted by: Sisyphus | Jan 19, 2007 8:52:50 PM

I like how Charles Murray's argument relies on the idea that he is functionally retarded. Not smart enough to read a math journal, even if you'd had decades of education in mathematics? That explains so much.

Posted by: carpeicthus | Jan 19, 2007 9:04:05 PM

But isn't the reaction to Murray's central thesis--intelligence is heritable--really a faith-based reaction?

There's a difference between "heritable" and "genetic." Children of farmers tend to inherit their parents' propensity to have missing fingers. That's because children of farmers inherit their parents' propensity for farming and lose their fingers in farming accidents like their parents, not because there's a genetic trait related to fingers -- or a genetic trait related to enjoyment of farming -- being passed down from what generation to the next.

Posted by: Constantine | Jan 19, 2007 9:24:36 PM

If Muray's point is that intelligence is not totally elastic, I think my response would be to that "duh, really?" The point is why I have a love-hate relationships with academics. They an important obvious, and then proceed to act as if they have discovered the meaning of life.

The question, to me, isn't whether intelligence is elastic. It's the degree to which it's capable of being molded if given the proper stimuli to achieve the end of teaching.

Look, let me pull this back for a second. The problem is that we have a so-so educational system layered on top of a society that doesn't appreciate education even for its own children, much less those of others. The idea that from this you can make some conclusive statements about education seems to be jumping to conclusions that one can not reasonably make. Even if I relax my standards for the method that I normally require for proof, his problem is there are too many intermediate causes which could produce the same results he reduces to intelligence. His problem is also that he reduces intelligence to one factor, when it is fact two- nature and nuture.

Let's assume for a second that his argument is correct that intelligence is not perfectly elastic (again, "duh, really?" but anyway, let's assume) that does not negate the fact that it is perfect inelastic either.

And as for race, his argument falls in further off the mark. We know for a fact that the educational system does not serve all racial groups equally in this society. We know that it doesn't serve all economic groups equally. How then can he judge the intelligence.

This argument was actually recently spotlighted in the NY Times which talked about lawyers, and the problems large law firms have retaining lawyers of color.

Several writers, including this one we are talking about here, there too described intelligence along a narrow band. The problem is that there really are multiple layers to intelligence. One kid maybe good at math, or another (such as myself may start off so-so at writing and reading, but improve as I strengthen my real talent- analytical thinking (which is what the IQ test I took in school that I mention above tested rather than my ability to retain information by reading quickly. According to the testing, for whatever it's worth, I supposedly have way above average anlytical skills. Nevertheless, it was the integration of my analytical skills by also developing my reading and writing that really shifted the balance for me educationally. First, however, one had to understand the nature of my intelligence. I would argue the same is probably true for a lot of students.). How does his discussion of elasticity, if the arguments being presented here are correct as to his view, address the issues that I am laying out? How does one reflect that learning is a combination of elastic and inelastic traits rather than one or the other in a soceity which is about unequal distribution of resources? I am not advocating that we change the distribution of resources, but I advocating that we not pretend that we are some how genetically favored to have them. That's a false statement given the imbalance between the two.

Posted by: akaison | Jan 19, 2007 10:06:49 PM

One reason Murray is still with us is that a couple of his pre-Bell Curve (and relatively non-objectionable) books were edited by Simon & Schuster's Alice Mayhew at a time when one of her associate editors (who worked with Murray) was David Shipley; Shipley went on to become the editor of the New York Times op-ed page, and kept publishing Murray there when he should have been a pariah.

Posted by: Esteban | Jan 19, 2007 10:53:26 PM

I grew up in a family that regularly endured periods of poverty--having the electricity turned off, cars nearly repossessed, etc. I never attended a private school, and the public schools that I did attend taught few of the courses expected by prestigious colleges (no physics, no calculus, no French, etc). Early on, testing showed that I had a very high IQ. Throughout my childhood, I never had to work hard, and rarely brought a book home from school, yet I was always at or near the top of my class. Throughout college and graduate school, I was able to excel even though many of my classmates worked much longer and harder. And, I had some super-smart classmates who worked even less yet did even better! Although I now work hard, I know that neither privilege of birth nor dint of hard work caused me to achieve throughout my schooling. In fact, when people would laud my scholastic accomplishments, I more usually felt guilt rather than pride, because I felt as though my biggest accomplishment was not getting in the way of what came effortlessly. Thus, it seems obvious to me that there is much truth in what Murray says.

And, that is not surprising; if society took took ten thousand men just like me, and undertook to train and coach them to become NBA-quality basketball players, or NFL-quality football players, I dare say that every dollar spent would be wasted. No amount of training or coaching would make me (despite being 6'2" tall), an NFl, NBA or even a college or high-school quality athlete. I don't have those gifts, so I use the ones that I do have.

Posted by: Chris Reynolds | Jan 20, 2007 9:12:43 AM

I see pure racist element has finally shown up

Posted by: akaison | Jan 20, 2007 11:03:35 AM

The single, easiest argument againt IQ correlating with success (at least strongly correlating with success) is that George W Bush became President of the United States.

IQ is a useful measure, but it does not determine a person's future with no intervention possible. I've known "smart" people who have self-destructed due to arrogance or willful ignorance and I know "dumb" people who were in the right place at the right time and were "smart" enough to grab the opportunity when placed in front of them.

The single biggest correlation to success from my personal point of view is how hard one is willing to work (both at a job and putting up with the absolute BS that goes along with a typical day in a job).


Also, don't forget blind luck as a big factor in success or failure. The best education in the world and the "best" genes won't do you a bit of good if you get in a car accident caused by a random jackass drunk driver and spend the rest of your life disabled and at a severe disadvantage, through no fault of your own.

Posted by: BlazingDragon | Jan 20, 2007 11:52:13 AM

I see pure racist element has finally shown up

Maybe you'd be happier if he had spoken of hockey or soccer? Same point.

Posted by: Sanpete | Jan 20, 2007 12:25:57 PM

I grew up in a family that regularly endured periods of poverty--having the electricity turned off, cars nearly repossessed, etc. I never attended a private school, and the public schools that I did attend taught few of the courses expected by prestigious colleges (no physics, no calculus, no French, etc). Early on, testing showed that I had a very high IQ. Throughout my childhood, I never had to work hard, and rarely brought a book home from school, yet I was always at or near the top of my class.

All of which would seem to invalidate Murray's claim of a hereditable linkage between economic status and IQ. After all, if Murray is correct, the dire economic circumstances of your childhood would be indicative of your parent's low IQ.

Posted by: WB Reeves | Jan 20, 2007 12:53:04 PM

The single,easiest argument says that Indians can't be poor because Lakshmi Mittal is rich.Therefore,it is wrong to generalise that being Indian in any way correlates with being poor.Which must come as a great relief to them.

Seriously,folks, the IQ tests are analogous to using the 1 rep max as a rough measure of physical strength..For example,the pre-eminent strongman athlete of our time,Mariusz Pudzianowski,regularly fails to win in the strongman event at the Arnold Classic,because that particular event requires more pure strength than regular strongman comps,which have more to do with speed and strength-endurance.

The point here is that all of this hair-splitting doesn't necessarily undermine the usefulness of the one rep maximum as a rough measure of strength.After all,Marius can still squat 800 pounds!Which puts him way to the right end of the bell curve in that respect,despite the fact there are lots of guys who are even stronger than him in that sense.

The same thing applies to IQ.Although IQ is not the only factor in determining success,it is - paraphrasing Dr. Phil here - a pretty good indicator as to who can become,say, a university professor or an engineer.(leave politicians out of it!).

Really,Murray's point was that children with a lower than average IQ are extremely unlikely to become successful in jobs that require a high degree of abstract reasoning (usually,but not always, high-paying).So why put them into a position where they have to compete for the same opportunities with the smartest ones?

Posted by: worldcap | Jan 20, 2007 1:10:16 PM

BlazingDragon and WB Reeves,are you sure you understand the difference between causation and correlation?

Not all tall people are good at basketball;not all basketball players are tall people.However,the prevalence of tall people among basketball players,particularly in the pro leagues,tells us something about the relationship between height and basketball.

Can you guess what it is?

Posted by: worldcap | Jan 20, 2007 1:19:22 PM

So why put them into a position where they have to compete for the same opportunities with the smartest ones?

Excuse me but how does making educational opportunities equally available translate into "...competing for the same opportunities?" The question at hand is whether or not we should be attempting to teach children to read. No one is insisting that everyone should be a rocket scientist. Are you really prepared to support condemning countless numbers of kids to a life of functional illiteracy through administrative fiat based on shoddy "science"?

Posted by: WB Reeves | Jan 20, 2007 1:26:06 PM

Having read the Bell Curve, and lots of essays critical of it, I never understood Murray to be saying that low IQ invariably leads to poverty, or that high IQ invariably leads to success. In general, the correlations are statistically significant, but they do not predict individual outcomes. Indeed, Murray has often made this point.

My parents both had high IQs, but those were insufficient for them to overcome a variety of other factors that led to their frequent impoverished circumstances. Each, however, had great academic success for so long as they were able to stay in school.

As to why basketball and football were used as the examples of sports for which no amount of coaching and training would prepare me (or anyone of my level of atletic prowess)--that is easy: they were the two at which I failed most miserably, despite a love for each.

Posted by: Chris Reynolds | Jan 20, 2007 1:29:54 PM

sanpete - I tried against my better judgement to talk to you once again in this thread. I won't be making that mistake again.

Posted by: akaison | Jan 20, 2007 1:30:08 PM

BlazingDragon and WB Reeves,are you sure you understand the difference between causation and correlation?

Why don't you explain it to us? While your at it you can explaint how your question correlates with Murray's contention that IQ is a hereditable trait.

Posted by: WB Reeves | Jan 20, 2007 1:31:16 PM

I think WB Reeves caught the strawman in Murray's argument. The school system has never tried to make everybody into theoretical physicists or whatever our current concept of a job requiring great intelligence might be. Murray takes this strawman (and we might all nod in agreement that it doesn't make sense to grow a generation of physicists out of all children) and then he skips to whether it's even worth the bother to teach children to read.

What he is really after with this whole introduction is the discussion of group difference in intelligence. The next round will tell us why it is the blacks and the women we shouldn't bother to educate.

Posted by: Echidne | Jan 20, 2007 1:38:36 PM

Having read the Bell Curve, and lots of essays critical of it, I never understood Murray to be saying that low IQ invariably leads to poverty, or that high IQ invariably leads to success. In general, the correlations are statistically significant, but they do not predict individual outcomes. Indeed, Murray has often made this point.

Which means of course that any policy limiting educational or social opportunity based on said statistical generality would, of necessity, hobble those for whom the stats were not predictive. Are these indviduals expendable?

Posted by: WB Reeves | Jan 20, 2007 1:38:41 PM

I wrote, based on my experience, the following:

"Thus, it seems obvious to me that there is much truth in what Murray says."

I do not read Murray to be suggesting that we not teach reading to all students. I strongly believe that everyone needs to be able to read and understand what they read. I did read Murray to be suggesting that persons with IQs of 90 and below are not going to become astrophysicists or good lawyers, just as I will never (despite millions that one might spend on coaching and training) become a world-class or even moderately good football or basketball player.

Posted by: Chris Reynolds | Jan 20, 2007 1:50:47 PM

I do not read Murray to be suggesting that we not teach reading to all students.

So you're contending that Murray doesn't have a policy agenda vis a vis the identification of supposedly sub par social groups? Are you suggesting that his argument that resources are wasted on groups and individuals who lack the requisite IQ has no application beyond the fields you mention? If so, why did he bring literacy into the discussion at all?

Posted by: WB Reeves | Jan 20, 2007 2:06:45 PM

I may be wrong, but I read Murray as attempting to start a discussion--which he has now done--regarding allocation of finite resources; i.e., if the country has X billion dollars to spend on education, how and where should they be allocated as among the various segments of the universe of students. This is informed by judgments as to what are the ultimate "ends" that our society is prepared to embrace.

For example, if I suggested that 5'6" and under Americans were badly underrepresented in the NBA, and proposed the expenditure of $100,000,000 targeted at this population and to be spent on coaching and training these men to qualify for the NBA, it would be fair for others to question whether such a program was the highest and best use of that sum of money. The fact that you questioned whether such an expenditure made sense would not mean that you were discrimintating against persons shorter than average.

Posted by: Chris Reynolds | Jan 20, 2007 2:16:51 PM

Are you really prepared to support condemning countless numbers of kids to a life of functional illiteracy through administrative fiat based on shoddy "science"?

Who argues for that?

then he skips to whether it's even worth the bother to teach children to read.

Where?

The next round will tell us why it is the blacks and the women we shouldn't bother to educate.

Baloney.

If so, why did he bring literacy into the discussion at all?

Others will be better able to answer this, but just from what I read in that one piece, it appears he sees problems with a program like No Child Left Behind, which he seems to think is too naive in its goals, or at least the way they're measured. And a fair number of educators agree. I'm not sure it's true myself, but I can see his reasons.

He didn't say folks with below average IQs can't read, in any case, only that they won't be reading some kinds of material. IQ may stand for too much here, of course. You could remake much of his arguments based on other tests measuring more specific abilities, if you favor that.

Posted by: Sanpete | Jan 20, 2007 2:30:49 PM

which he has now done--regarding allocation of finite resources; i.e., if the country has X billion dollars to spend on education, how and where should they be allocated as among the various segments of the universe of students.

Funny how there are always finite resources for education and so we need to cut off aid for those who just aren't going to succeed. These just happen to be racial minorities that we have exploited and abused for hundreds of years. Wonder why anyone could object to that?

Posted by: Col Bat Guano | Jan 20, 2007 6:34:38 PM

see, Col, racial minorities such as myself are too stupid to understand the rarified conversations of people like Murray, and we need people like Sanpete, and several other posters to explain how we are too dumb to catch the real meaning of what he is saying.

Posted by: akaison | Jan 20, 2007 6:46:57 PM

Although people attempt to discredit Murray with various attacks, most of what he said originally about the state of intelligence research is not seriously disputed.

See http://www.psychpage.com/learning/library/intell/mainstream.html.

People are of course free to disagree with him regarding what these facts mean for what we should value, aspire to and encourage. These are among the hardest questions we must confront, and ad hominem attacks only make it more difficult to debate the issues in a candid manner.

Posted by: Chris Reynolds | Jan 20, 2007 7:14:41 PM

People are of course free to disagree with him regarding what these facts mean for what we should value, aspire to and encourage. These are among the hardest questions we must confront, and ad hominem attacks only make it more difficult to debate the issues in a candid manner.

Facts? I do not think this word means what you think it means.

Posted by: Col Bat Guano | Jan 20, 2007 7:35:43 PM

Funny how there are always finite resources for education and so we need to cut off aid for those who just aren't going to succeed.

Who said anything about cutting aid? What you quoted was about how best to use it. If Bush wants every child to reach a certain level of reading a certain kind of text, and that's the main determinant of success or failure, one that takes no account of native differences, there could well be a problem there that needs to be addressed.

Akaison, I don't think you lack in intelligence at all. I think you too often let anger cloud your thinking.

Posted by: Sanpete | Jan 20, 2007 8:02:26 PM

There have always been finite resources available for education (even when Clinton was president and Democrats controlled congress) and our system has always endeavored to educate everyone. Sadly (see "No Excuses: Closing the Racial Gap in Education"), there appears to be no demonstrable correlation between money spent and improvements realized. If anyone can point me to such research, please do so. Until such research is forthcoming, we must search for solutions that are more targeted (based on peer-reviewed research) than "more money."

Posted by: Chris Reynolds | Jan 20, 2007 8:10:09 PM

Actually, Mr. Reynolds, the solutions that have been proven effective (samller class sizes, one-on-one tutoring for at-risk students, proper physical education) do require more money *than is currently being spent*. I don't know where you live, but here in the Bay Area, we've got schools that are literally falling apart. "More money" is desperately needed--clearly too little has been allocated. Once basic services are in place in all schools and class sizes do not exceed twenty-five students to one teacher, then we can talk about targeted solutions. Until then, all of this is pretty irrelevant.

Posted by: DocAmazing | Jan 20, 2007 8:55:25 PM

My daughter homeschools her kids (six and two years of age). She is not a fundamentalist wingnut, but a very progressive, feminist advocate. Among her homeschooling friends, many of them report that their kids don't take off in reading until they are around seven years old, sometimes older. Her daughter, who is quite ahead of most six-year-olds when it comes to science and math, is not yet reading, just taking steps toward that. Yet my daughter was able to read simple stories by the age of four. Is my granddaughter dumber that my daughter? Hell no. She is simply taking her time, either developmentally, or from personal preference. If she is like her uncle--her mom's younger brother--reading will happen in a brief and intense period that would boost her on the tests by a few school grades.

But what nonsense.

Our school system and the current emphasis on standardized test are dooming children to rote learning and stultification of natural curiosity. It's a damned shame and a crime.

And really, it's just as Gatto says (and I disagree with him on some of his political ideas, so let's get that straight): the educational system was designed to make people accept their place in a capitalist system, and to make them into consumers. In that sense, our educational system has succeeded spectacularly.

Posted by: Kris | Jan 20, 2007 10:35:19 PM

Murray has argued NCLB should be repealed. If it's true IQ is malleable, and there are no group differences, meaning all children are equally educable, then NCLB is not only reasonable but a necessary policy, to ensure schools really are doing the utmost to educate all children equally.

Posted by: Johnny Thunders | Jan 21, 2007 12:08:38 AM

JT,

I wonder if it is merely a correlation that you appear to be surrounded by a warehouse of "I'm with stupid" t-shirts?

Disrespectfully,

PP

Posted by: Pinko Punko | Jan 21, 2007 3:46:19 AM

To: DocAmazing

By the "Bay area," I take it you mean San Francisco, which is in California, a state that has agressively adopted a policy of smaller class sizes. Smaller class sizes mean that the schools need more classrooms, because it takes more classrooms to house the same number of students if you put fewer in each room. You will also need more teachers. If we assume that the bulk of the available and currently unemployed teachers are the ones who were passed over by the schools when they were hiring, then we may be looking at adding un- or under-qualified teachers when we reduce class sizes. Perhaps this explains why California has seen such miniscule impacts from its multi-billion dollar investment in class size reduction.

I volunteer my time to tutor students, and I substitute teach when I have the opportunity to do so. I am passionate about education, but I also want to ensure that our dollars get spent on programs contemplated to produce meaningful results.

Posted by: Chris Reynolds | Jan 21, 2007 7:33:06 AM

I wish I could say I have never before seen such a blatant misrepresentation of Murray's views, but that isn't the case. Anyone with the temerity to point out the large and persistent gaps in IQ scores between the races is going to attract the rancor of those who can't stand the fact that between 50,000 and 250,000 years of evolution resulted in the various branches of humanity being, you know, different. Since there seem to be a lot of people out there who can't stomach the idea, smearing Murray is pretty common.

Obviously intelligence is a complex thing, but it should be equally obvious that IQ tests measure something. Otherwise, they wouldn't still be in use. Besides, if you don't believe that IQ measures intelligence, do you not believe in mental retardation? Because the definition of mental retardation is based on IQ scores, and as a man who grew up with a mentally retarded sister, I can tell you mental retardation is real. And while denying the nature of IQ may seem like the nice, egalitarian thing to do, it's actually a slap in the face to those unfortunate people like my sister who can't live full, normal lives because of its deficiency. And it stands to reason that if mental retardation as predicted by IQ scores is real, so is genius and everything in between.

As for race and IQ, well, I'm sorry, but over one hundred years of testing in countries as different as Britain, Brazil and the United States all reveal a 15 point gap in mean scores between white and black adults. The gap persists across all socioeconomic levels and in cases of interracial adoption. Chances are, these results mean something.

I don't mean to be a jerk, but a lot of you people need to grow up and face reality. I realize that the possibility of average genetic differences in intelligence between the races is upsetting. But part of being an adult is that you face uncomfortable truths, not retreat into some p.c. fantasy land where intelligence is either meaningless or immeasurable--especially if it's a luxury that the rest of us can't afford.

Posted by: Marc | Jan 22, 2007 12:32:27 AM

Marc, the APA position formed in response to book and quoted in the Wikipedia piece goes like this:

The differential between the mean intelligence test scores of Blacks and Whites (about one standard deviation, although it may be diminishing) does not result from any obvious biases in test construction and administration, nor does it simply reflect differences in socio-economic status. Explanations based on factors of caste and culture may be appropriate, but so far have little direct empirical support.There is certainly no such support for a genetic interpretation. At present, no one knows what causes this differential.

That's still a common view among those most familiar with the evidence. Murray objects that there is much indirect evidence, but there are also arguments for other interpretations. It isn't as cut and dried as you seem to think.

Posted by: Sanpete | Jan 22, 2007 1:11:32 AM

There may not be direct evidence (yet) that the IQ gap between blacks and whites is at least partly genetic, but anyone who insists that it can't be is acting on faith, not reason. The circumstantial evidence suggesting an at least partial genetic cause is overwhelming. Also, it would seem odd that so many other differences between people -- height, eye color, etc. -- are at least partially determined by genetics, but for some magical reason, intelligence isn't.

It's understandable that liberal egalitarians are troubled by this but that's no reason to misrepresent Charles Murray's arguments and to subject him to ad hominem attacks. Ignoring aspects of reality that you don't like doesn't make them go away.

Posted by: Dave | Jan 22, 2007 2:15:10 AM

I'm glad this thread does not consist only of Murray-flaming.

I like Chris Reynolds' posts because what he says about his background reminds me of my own. My parents were definitely smart, but not terribly good at or interested in making money. Nor, really, am I (as I must acknowledge). It's just much more exciting to read good books or watch old movies.

However, Murray-Herrnstein's point in The Bell Curve, or one of them, was that statistic averages matter, and that, on average, a high-g person is going to be not only smart in the everyday sense, able to grasp complex reasoning and formulate complex arguments, but also conscientious, goal-oriented and capable of postponing satisfaction. Apparently, in some way which genetics may one day illuminate, these traits correlate strongly with g, or mental ability if you wish.

In my parents' (or my) case, goal-orientation just didn't mean following money-making pursuits. Simple, really.

Posted by: David G | Jan 22, 2007 8:15:50 AM

So why don't all of you who think Murray is wrong go into the education business yourselves and show them how it ought to be done; after all, it appears the professionals in the field have no clue, because after many years and lots and lots of money spent trying, the bothersome 'achievement gap' is not narrowing.

But before embarking on that, maybe you can take a few minutes and explain why the achievement test scores of black kids whose parents have advanced university degrees are, on average, lower than those of Whites whose parents at most only made it through high school:

Black children of parents with graduate degrees have lower SAT scores than white children of parents with a high-school diploma or less.

Perhaps that will be easier.

Posted by: eh | Jan 22, 2007 8:56:33 AM

Charles Murray systematically overstates the importance of IQ, in contrast to 99% of the other pundits who systematically understate its importance or even deny it altogether.

IQ is an inexact attempt to measure intelligence. Intelligence is only one quality that humans posess. Who says that there are other important human traits, such as self control, compassion, whatever?

But a person's innate intelligence does place a cap on his reading ability. Schools can only get students up to the their natural cap. And probably schools are doing a worse job with the gifted, because they seem to be doing well compared to the average or below average, but they may graduate further from their innate cap.

Posted by: Half Sigma | Jan 22, 2007 10:33:56 AM

LOL at those who try to rebut Murray's use of mainstream psychometric science by citing Howard Gardner, the charlatan of "EQ" and heaven knows how many "multiple intelligences"!

How long has Gardner been promising empirical verification of his conjectures? Twenty years, or is it thirty by now?

The marxoid blank-slate ostriches must be fed on promises, he's got nothing else to offer. Stick him in the claptrap can with Gould and Lewontin and all the other biodiversity-deniers.

JB Watson, the Behaviourist, boasted in the 1920s that he could take any kid from anywhere and turn it into a genius with the right conditioning. Here we are 80 years on and the witch-doctors of spending tax money on educational "enrichment" are churning out semi-literates by the ton. I guess, as Johnny Thunders says, they haven't quite hit on the right magic for converting sows' ears into silk purses, but give 'em another fifty years and another few billions of bucks...

Posted by: David L Nilsson | Jan 22, 2007 12:50:18 PM

HalfSigma: Your take on IQ comports completely with Murray's views.

Posted by: tom merle | Jan 22, 2007 1:08:35 PM

This is a quote from my post on your post. Then it occurred to me to ask it directly. Here you go, I'd be pleased as punch if you answered.

Here's a question for Ezra: Let him take two students and teach them. One tests with an IQ of 80 and the other tests with an IQ of 120. Does he honestly think both students will learn at the same pace? Would he be surprised when the 120 IQ student understands the concept and is busy working on the homework while he has to repeatedly explain the concepts to the IQ 80 student? Does he think that the IQ 80 student will, even given unlimited one on one teaching, be able to learn theoretical physics or advanced calculus? Honestly, does he really think we could have the next strings theory breakthrough if only we spent more time on the IQ 80 student? Really?

I suspect that he does not. I suspect that all of his commenters who are lighting their torches and advancing on Murray's castle don't either.

Posted by: Gerald Hibbs | Jan 22, 2007 2:46:37 PM

I think Cranky is right. Every kid has the exact same ability to read at the same level as every other kid, if given enough one on one attention! If we only would try, and devote enough tax money, every kid could be above average. In fact, if we really wanted to, if it wasn't for the hegemonic schemes of the oil industry and Haliburton, every kid could be a Nobel Laureate AstroPhysicist.

This whole idea that ability comes in a spectrum from the severely and profoundly retarded, who have trouble speaking or controlling their bowells, to genius prodigies who complete advanced university degrees before puberty, is just an evil conspiracy! You know,people who believe that crap are just dumb, I bet almost nobody with a Masters of Education would buy that stupid junk.

Posted by: Earnest | Jan 22, 2007 6:34:00 PM


Is false guilt a genetic trait?
“. . . minorities that we have exploited and abused for hundreds of years.”

That reminds me of the Lone Ranger joke. (Which I do not take pleasure in retelling.)

Lone Ranger: Tonto we’re surrounded by hundreds of Indians. It looks like we’re done for, faithful Indian companion.

Tonto: Ah what you mean “we” Kemosabee?

You may have, but I have never for even one second exploited and abused any minority, not to mention hundreds of years.

Posted by: P Noctura | Jan 22, 2007 8:14:01 PM

Sanpete,

To say there is no genetic evidence for the black-white IQ gap is basically to say that they haven't located what genes are responsible. But this isn't surprising, given that they haven't identified what 99.9% of our genes are for. As Darwinists always say when asked where the missing link between man and ape is, "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence."

And as others have pointed out, the indirect evidence that the gap is genetic is substantial. Black children raised in affluent white homes have, as adults, IQs that lag behind those of their white adopted siblings by about 15 points. I find it difficult to believe that white parents are denying their adopted black children the same education they are providing their white children.

Posted by: Marc | Jan 22, 2007 9:11:41 PM

http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/image/0011/earthlights_dmsp_big.jpg

Posted by: Pat Shuff | Jan 23, 2007 10:21:59 AM

I find it difficult to believe that white parents are denying their adopted black children the same education they are providing their white children.

Marc, that's hardly the only other possible explanation that ought to come to mind. There are a number of things to settle about how race works in this country. Even if we both go to the same school, we may be treated differently. There are also important issues about the nature of the tests and what they are purported to measure that remain controversial. That said, I've already granted that there's good reason to suspect a genetic cause is involved. That possibility isn't especially troubling to me, but the conclusions people often rush to with that idea, and the ways in which some think it matters, are troubling.

Posted by: Sanpete | Jan 23, 2007 2:33:29 PM

There's little doubt that if a child's IQ really is below 90, she's not going to be a big achiever academically. But that doesn't mean she can't contribute to society or her community. Scientifically, Murray is well in the middle of intelligence researchers--not at the extreme. Morally and ethically, society has to decide what to do with the science. Right now it's ignoring it. But society can change rapidly, and it looks like Murray's views are on the verge of greater exposure.

Posted by: Erza | Jan 24, 2007 6:24:50 PM

“Actually, Mr. Reynolds, the solutions that have been proven effective (samller class sizes, one-on-one tutoring for at-risk students, proper physical education) do require more money *than is currently being spent*. I don't know where you live, but here in the Bay Area, we've got schools that are literally falling apart. ‘More money’ is desperately needed--clearly too little has been allocated. Once basic services are in place in all schools and class sizes do not exceed twenty-five students to one teacher, then we can talk about targeted solutions. Until then, all of this is pretty irrelevant.”
“Posted by: DocAmazing | Jan 20, 2007 5:55:25 PM”

Proven effective where? I am not aware of any work showing that “samller class sizes, one-on-one tutoring for at-risk students, [and] proper physical education” have “been proven effective” in improving academic achievement. Your assertion sounds like a variation on the “racism and underfunded schools” rationalization that tenured racists and sexists give in their sleep, even though the facts are otherwise.

Like most of the readers and the blogger here, you have neither read Murray nor have you read honest work on smaller class sizes, etc.

I worked as a tutor in college, and much later taught remedial college courses for six-and-a-half years. The poster who said her “spouse” gave one-on-one tutoring to kids who suddenly went from being illiterate to being rocket scientists, is either married to the world’s greatest (and most anomalous) teaching genius, the world’s biggest liar, or her “spouse” tutored the most intellectually anomalous group of kids in America. (Or she made up the story.) Whatever the case should be, no general conclusions can be drawn from her claims, and your claims are pure hogwash.

When I venture to message boards and blogs discussing education, left or right, I’ve noticed that with a few notable exceptions, such as Kimberley Swygert and Joanne Jacobs, the posters (and often the bloggers, too) exhibit a perfect combination of strong opinions, utter ignorance, often rank dishonesty (e.g., despicable misrepresentations of Murray by Ezra & Co.), and laziness (you guys don’t seem to have done any serious reading, let alone thinking on the subject).

Yours in struggle,

Nicholas Stix

Posted by: Nicholas Stix | Jan 25, 2007 11:57:02 AM

I agree with most of what Charles Murray says, but think he failed to make the most of his editorial space.

IQ, or g, exists. People with high IQs tend to grasp things very quickly. People with low IQs tend to learn slowly, and while they are finally catching on, the high IQ person has been learning something else.

But you CAN improve the abilities of the lower third of the IQ scale, with longer school days and a longer school year. Ironically, by doing this you will make the dullest students more educated, even as they fall further behind their higher IQ peers, since the higher IQ students will learn at a faster rate and be better able to utilize the extra time spent in school.

One problem with NCLB is that it sets one standard for every child, when in fact every child is not equally capable. To really measure the quality of education provided, we need to look at IQ, and THEN look at how much a child has progressed over the previous year.

I'm sure there are a lot of good teachers getting a bad rap because they teach lower IQ students who simply can't (on average) learn as much as their higher IQ peers.

Another disagreement I had with Murray's opinion is that he suggests that a college education is wasted on anyone but about the top 15 percent of society. I know a lot of people who are just a bit above average who nevertheless benefitted from a college education, and not merely in an economic sense.

Posted by: Rebelyell | Jan 26, 2007 1:05:19 PM

The fundamental problem with genteel racists like Murray and his supporters here is that they refuse to accept that they are biased, that the basis of the testing regime used is ethnocentric and sub-culturally biased, and that they refuse to accept the evidence before their own eyes that the systematic racist abuse of darker skinned students begins before they even get to schools.
In every country where a colonialist white government has been placed by force in positions of authority over darker skinned peoples, the same systematic murder, abuse and diminishment of those indigenous peoples has followed with the full support of the typically white "scientific" class, whose purpose often seems to be to provide rationales for the continued race based oppression and exploitation of indigenous people. The white supremacist myth is fully operating in Iraq and Afghanistan today in the same way the US has done it in Central and South America, Vietnam, the Philippines, and on through the litany. Anyone from the darkly complected group who appears to be smarter than the rest is considered a danger to continued white supremacy and is neutralized by the ruling authority or through self-protecting action by the indigenous group. Uppity n*ggers get lynched, whether they are Filipino freedom fighters, Polish Jews in the Warsaw Ghetto, Iraqi prisoners in Abu Ghraib, or a teenage boy sassing a white woman. Genetic survival of the selfish gene depends on the gene bearer not being "selekted" out by the oppressive overclass.
The people who funded Murray's data sources were from that class of genteel racists who might not directly participate in a lynching, but generally approved and would not tut-tut very loudly either. The class difference being represented here is the difference between the Conservative Citizens' Councils and the Ku Klux Klan. Ronald Reagan started his campaign by cultivating the genteel racists and sending a message to the violent white mobs that he was on board with them, and the resurgence of middle class white racism has continued to where it is acceptable for Limbaugh and Beck to idly abuse dark skinned people from their positions of privilege to feed the status quo.
One way to single out the troublemakers for isolation and potential "selektion" is through rigorous testing designed to measure intelligence in terms of how well the individual conforms to what is expected of them. A dark skinned person may be very intelligent but may be directed not to perform on these tests to fulfill spoken and unspoken expectations on the part of the proctor, a desire not to be seen as having given in to an oppressive system (domination/resistance)by rebelling, or they simply understand that if they appear smart they are at risk for being "uppity" and will experience negative social reinforcement.
The naive defense of measures of intelligence is a response, I believe, to white people's acceptance of their position of inherited power based on generations of violence against ethnic groups defined by skin tone and national origin. The change from Archie Bunker to Meathead (e.g. ethnocentric status measures vs. public egalitarianism or meritocracy) is very recent and incomplete, but the privileged whites are loath to understand that they are deeply privileged, while darker complected whites (Mediterranean Italians, Greeks, Persians, etc.) experience increasing grades of negative social reinforcement based on the status hierarchy derived from before the British Empire fluoresced. Ask yourself how many of each ethnic group have been sodomized with plungers in police custody, shot more than one pistol clip's number of bullets, forced under color of law to be humiliated and tortured for sport. When the color of your skin determines whether you live or not, whether you are promoted or not, and what kind of intellectual and social life you are allowed to have, measures of intelligence are not innocent topics for scientific study but tools of, by, and for a colonial oppressor to maintain control.
Why are white people in charge? The ability and willingness to systematically murder, abuse, humiliate and oppress their fellows using increasingly sophisticated scientific equipment and methods in order to maintain social and economic control, and to use those same tools to convince others that the methods are justified.

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