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July 14, 2006
Link of the Day: Hezbollah Sucks Edition
MJ Rosenberg's column on Israel's two front battle is about the best I've read on the subject. As he notes, it's a terrible mistake to lump together the actions against Hamas and the actions against Hezbollah -- one has an actual grievance -- be it right or wrong -- against Israel, while the other is pursuing aggression for aggression's sake. The political solutions that need to be pursued with Hamas aren't nearly so relevant when it comes to Syria, Lebanon, and Hezbollah, and any sound analysis of the situations has to account for that.
July 14, 2006 | Permalink
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Rosenberg: The Israelis, now that they have given up on the Greater Israel fantasy, want security.
Israel says it will not negotiate with Hamas nor has it expressed interest in the so-called prisoners document which indicates that virtually all the Palestinian groups are coming around to a form of acceptance of Israel.
The latest Israeli moves don't suggest to me that the Greater Israel idea has been given up - nor do Olmert's hints at what he has in mind for final Israeli sovereign borders would look like. Bantustan's in the west bank are not a basis for peace.
And there is little or no indication from Israel that it differentiates between the various Palestinian actors as a potential negotiating partner.
Unilateralism won't bring peace.
Posted by: JimPortlandOR | Jul 14, 2006 12:52:27 PM
while [Hezbollah] is pursuing aggression for aggression's sake.
This is crazy. It is formally the same as saying that Iran is led by a madman who will seek to attack Israel, even though he knows it will end Iran, because he's a madman. Hezbollah has a goal. I don't know what it is, and I'm happy to believe that it's a really, really evil goal that must be stopped. But treating them as if they're a bunch of crazy teens joyriding out of boredom or because of hormones isn't going to help matters.
Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Jul 14, 2006 12:58:04 PM
"Israelis are terrorized by Kassam rockets launched from Gaza while a humanitarian disaster has been inflicted on the Palestinians."
Brought on the Palestinian people by the gov't they elected, not Israel.
"There are no such grievances. Israel fully left Lebanese territory in 2000. Neither Hezbollah or Lebanon have outstanding claims against Israel."
And Israel pulled out of Gaza in 2005. The 'land for peace' appeasement of Hamas. Hamas and Gaza have no claims against Israel either.
"Palestinian attacks on Israel are indefensible, especially now that Israel is out of Gaza, but there is a political context there."
Trying to defend the indefensible?
"But neither Israel nor the United States can afford to simply lump Palestinians of every stripe together and deem them all unacceptable partners."
Both Israel and the US have tried to negotiate with Abbas.
Can you blame Israel for not wanting to negotiate with a group (Hamas) whos intention is to destroy Israel.
Maybe I am mistaken, but it seems to me you believe Hamas in Gaza may some sort of legitimate grievance against Israel. Israel tried to promote peace by leaving Gaza. In my opinion Hamas should extend an olive branch to Israel. So what do they do? Violate Israel's border, kill Israeli troops and kidnap one.
The Palestinian Authority has made some efforts towards peace with Israel.
Hamas, Hezbollah, Islamic Jihad, etc. are terrorist organizations and should not be negotiated with until they totally renounce violence and any claim that Israel must be destroyed. Until they do, Israel should do everything they can to destroy those organizations.
Some claim that the US stole the southwest US from Mexico. If Mexican terrorists came across the border, killed some border patrol agents and kidnapped one and then wanted to negotiate, would that be acceptable? Of course not. So why should we ask Israel to negotiate with Hamas in this instance?
Posted by: Captain Toke | Jul 14, 2006 1:50:09 PM
Didn't Olmert profess just a few months ago to his people's deep and eternal claim to the whole land of Israel or some such? I'm not sure that the fantasy of "Greater Israel" has really been given up.
Also, what Tim said. People have motives, even people we don't like.
Posted by: Christmas | Jul 14, 2006 2:24:38 PM
while [Hezbollah] is pursuing aggression for aggression's sake.
SCMT is right, this doesn't make much sense. Maybe we could say that Hezbollah has no goal beyond destabilizing the region.
Of course, there would have to be some larger goals in mind, but for the short term that would probably suffice.
Posted by: Stephen | Jul 14, 2006 3:22:18 PM
what i am thinking about is somehow not reduced to politics. i think about simple and good people on both sides, caught in conflict and only wishing for peace in their lives.
i am thinking about two israeli children who are in my class, both are only two years old... they left last week to spend time with grandparents in israel...their grandparents,( themselves, children out of the holocaust, given a chance to regain what was left of life and family in israel), who would celebrate this visit, with these two magnificent and precious chldren.
and i think of them now, these winsome, beautiful children, sitting in bomb shelters.
these children...and their counterparts, in gaza....
that is what i am thinking about.
all of these children, in darkness...hearing the sounds of war around them. these little children were scared of the bigger children on our playground when they rode their bikes too fast. i can hardly imagine them now, sensing everything, as they do so well...
.....i think of my own visit to israel years ago, as a jewish woman. i visited friends in ramallah...kind and gracious palestinians, who gave me the ripest figs from their trees and dressed me in their native garments as a sign of friendship and kindness.
...i think of one of my oldest friends, a beautiful and gentle iranian woman...
i think of the people in israel...in israel...smaller than the state of new jersey..and the immense courage it takes just to live there.
and i think of the poor children in gaza...and their mothers rocking them in their arms.
....i dont pretend to know much about politics and history...but i do know that most mothers just want to raise their children in a peaceful world....palestinian, israeli, indian, american, iranian....they do not want conflict or bombs threatening the well being of their families.
and beyond all of the politics...i see a little nation founded in great number, by people who suffered through the holocaust, who know that many of their neighbors will be happy with nothing less than their total extinction....driving them into the sea.
...i think of trying to reason with someone wearing a suicide bomb...who sees glorification in death, a view of life that seems to me, "against nature" and all that cries out and clings to life.
to inculcate that to young people, as a path to glory seems to be a crime against nature and against our humanity.
....i see mothers, daughters, babies, men trying to live lives of simple purpose....people on both sides that wish there were no bombs...just people wanting to live in harmony and be left in peace.
.....and again, i just see the faces of little children, and the sound of bombs in the night.
....though there is much heaven here..there is certainly hell on earth as well.
G-d help all of these people, with special prayers for children everywhere, caught in the eye and tooth of these terrible and horrific struggles.
Posted by: jacqueline | Jul 14, 2006 5:38:09 PM
i also cannot help but think, that everytime an iraqi person is struck down in a market, or an american soldier is killed on a dusty road, or a child loses a limb in gaza, or a baby is left to starve in africa, or someone is turned to dust in a building, or a young israli girl is blown up on a bus...i think to myself..that was someone's child.
a mother gave birth to that person, with joyfulness and the hope for a happy and full life....that was a human being, who was precious to the world.
....what misery and pointlessly unecessary suffering war brings into this world.
i feel very sad today.
Posted by: jacqueline | Jul 14, 2006 5:56:30 PM
jacqueline,
Yours is a hearfelt post, but how do you propose to stop this? Wishing it gone will not make it go away.
Feeling instead of thinking will not solve this problem.
Posted by: Fred Jones | Jul 14, 2006 8:39:50 PM
fred...
no scholarly thoughts here, just homespun....
i think the only solution for most human problems, is to keep talking, keep the lines of communication open.
the sometimes, we can see problems occurring, before they turn into catastrophes. it is better to treat early symptoms, then fullblown illnesses.
....all people need to be treated with dignity and need their essential life needs met. when that cant happen, their discontent can give rise to dangerous mentalities.
i also think when madmen are belittled, they become madder. sometimes, it is better to give them a place at the table....acknowledging people and treating them with dignity, can sometimes work better than scorning and rejecting them.
because i think most tyrants are very insecure people to begin with.
but i dont have any other answers.
i guess i do what i can. i try to teach children about love and trust and kindness to others, in the hope that when they grow up, they will remember some of those lessons.
Posted by: jacqueline | Jul 14, 2006 9:06:08 PM
jacqueline,
There is a very good case to be made that jumping in earlier than the US did in WW II, instead of closing our eyes to the obvious tyranny and maintaing neutrality, would have saved countless lives.
Measuring acts as good or bad by whether they produce war and conflict in the shortrun is short sighted no matter how good it may feel emotionally.
It's a harsh world out there. There are people out there that don't even know you and would like very much to see you and all of your family dead. Suck it up and make the hard decisions with your mind and not your heart.
Posted by: Fred Jones | Jul 14, 2006 10:43:01 PM
heart and mindfulness = good decisions
Posted by: jacqueline | Jul 14, 2006 11:14:32 PM
Islam is a cult, not a religion. It is a form of mind control and brainwashing that has been successful for about 1300 years. The fact that it has been successful, does not give it legitimacy, as a religion, it is still a hate filled cult propagated by a pederast caravan raider who was just a plagiarist.
Posted by: nukemtilltheyglow | Jul 24, 2006 1:59:34 AM
