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September 25, 2005

Pangloss vs. Parental Notification

By Jedmunds

Jumping off of Neil’s post on parental consent laws below, which I think is essentially correct. Briefly, a child needs her parents’ permission to get a tattoo, because she doesn’t have a fundamental right to a tattoo. It’s a choice, if postponed, that isn’t going to irreparably damage the child. And before you go around giving some kid over the counter medications, you should check with her parents first, for the child’s protection with respect to adverse affects or any number of imaginable dangers. But mummy and daddy do not get to decide whether or not their daughter should spend nine-months undergoing a pregnancy and dealing with all of the awesome responsibilities that go with giving birth. Just as the government does not get to decide this for adults, mothers don’t get to decide it for their daughters. We can wring our hands as excessively as we want about it, but there’s really no better alternative.

But I think we focus too much on the word “consent,” in what are really parental notification laws. I, until very recently, was uniformly and absolutely opposed to parental notification laws because I felt it quite likely that it placed an undue burden on at least some girls’ right to exercise her right to autonomy over her own body. I’m not so sure anymore. I think that issue is still very much in play for a large number of young girls facing pregnancy. But I now think there may be other issues to consider as well when we allow children to get abortions without their parents knowledge, such as the case of the hypothetical 13 year old molested by the father of the children she baby-sits. How easy is it for this man, where that 13 year old can get an abortion without parental notice, to further manipulate the girl and cover his crimes? 

I’m not sure how heavily to weigh this sort of issue in terms of balancing the pros and cons of parental notification laws. How remote is the scenario first of all? I’m not a social scientist or anything, but I have what you might call a hunch that there is quite likely something terribly wrong happening when a girl under the age of 16 ends up pregnant. And my instinct tells me that alerting the parents might help to illuminate this wrongdoing for the protection of the child. But we can also imagine some pretty stark countervailing scenarios, involving crazy parents and unreasonable unproductive solutions.

Because of this, I think I still tend to lean against parental notification laws. While surely we can hypothesize a situation we’re such laws would be good for everyone. In most of the situations I can imagine, I don’t think we have a better option than placing some faith in the would be mother, most aware of all the circumstances, to make the decision that would be best for herself, which includes whether or not her parents need to know about it. And I’m not saying that that’s ideal either. But in the world we live in, it’s maybe the best of all possibilities. And while I don’t think anyone wants to imagine their daughter having an abortion alone without their knowledge and advice, all of the good loving parents out there should hopefully be able to trust that they’re raising good kids who will seek their help when they need it. But I know also how unfair and unreasonable it is to expect that of adolescent kids no matter how good their parents are.

For more, check out Jill from Feministe's, post on one actual consequence of such laws.

September 25, 2005 in Politics of Choice | Permalink

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Comments

Just for anybody who didn't click back, here's my argument in short form:

-The reason for requiring parental consent in the case of tattoos is to restrict kids from making choices that irreversibly damage their futures.

-Having an abortion doesn't irreversibly damage your future -- you can still become a mom whenever you want. However, bearing a child does irreversibly harm your future opportunities regarding employment, education, and marriage.

-Therefore, the reason for requiring parental consent in the tattoo case doesn't apply to abortion.

Posted by: Neil the Ethical Werewolf | Sep 25, 2005 1:15:50 AM

This discussion is getting more absurd by the minute. I'm an expert in this field. Girls from functional families don't get manipulated into pregnancy by the diabolical babysitter; this happens when the girl is so neglected/abused by the parents that they don't protect her, and/or she's afraid to tell them. Often, these children are being molested by both 3rd-parties (such as babysitters) AND family members. My previous comment still holds: it's situations like these that make parental notification laws so destructive. A girl who's afraid to talk to her parents about getting an abortion probably has very good reasons for feeling that way. Believe me, I've seen some awful scenes; the worst are the mothers who blame their daughters for "seducing" their husbands. Yes, that happens, much more than we want to acknowledge. Talking about tattoos utterly and insanely misses the point.

Posted by: Rebecca Allen, PhD | Sep 25, 2005 2:23:42 AM

Talking about tattoos utterly and insanely misses the point.

I'm not yet sure if you disagree with me. This line could well have been the conclusion of my previous post. The whole point was to refute the conservative argument that requiring parental consent for tattoos commits us to requiring parental consent for abortions.

Posted by: Neil the Ethical Werewolf | Sep 25, 2005 2:46:51 AM

I post something bout this the other week myself. I am big into parents being responsible for their children and their children's actions, but where it comes to notification of abortion --- I draw the line there. As Rebecca said, there are valid reasons why a girl may choose to not tell her parents. And them finding out may cause her more harm than good.

Unfortunately there are alot of unfit parents out there.

Posted by: Angie | Sep 25, 2005 2:53:58 AM

Neil--what is the evidence that "the reason to prevent kids from having tatoos is to restirct kids from making choices that irreversibly damage their futures?" As far as I know the tattoo thing has to do with the fact that tattoo's can be dangerous *to the hcild's health* if improperly delivered. Thus, it falls under all the other things that could be dangerous to the child's health--asprin, benadryl, etc... In all the cases where a child routinely interacts with non-family members there are rules (the good samaritan rule and rules applying to EMT's for implied consent) that forbid delivering services to a minor child that the parent *might want to supervise* or *might want to have a say in* for reasons of protecting the child.

This line of argument, though Neil seems very fond of it, simply doesn't hold water. Its not what the "tattoo=abortion" people are arguing, so refuting it doesn't refute their argument. There are plenty of anti-choice people who, if pressed, would argue that they would, in fact, agree that their minor child should have an abortion (and remember, notification laws aren't necessarily consent laws) but that they want the right to help their child find a responsible provider. Remember, underneath anti abortion rhetoric lies a morass of tangled lies about the "abortion mills" and in which abortion providers are *dangerous* to the physical health of the child.

PS. To the remark that there are abortion mills, or that abortion providers consistute some kind of "Industry" I always say "an abortion costs a couple of thousand dollars, a white baby on the adoption market brings in 50,000 or more. Which "industry" is actually set up to "profit" from someone's pregnancy?

aimai

Posted by: aimai | Sep 25, 2005 7:51:29 AM

This is from John Pinkerton, a Democratic Senate candidate in CA some time back:

"Parents must give consent before their child can have their ears pierced or a tattoo put on. In fact, in public schools and emergency rooms, parents must give consent before their child can be treated with so much as an aspirin. Most voters agree that it is outrageous to allow a child to undergo any surgical procedure, let alone an invasive, irreversible procedure such as an abortion, without parental notification."

One of the things my argument accomplishes is to turn his talk of irreversibility back against his position. Now, there might be support for your view here too, though I wonder whether consent requirements for medicine come out of legal liability issues.

Posted by: Neil the Ethical Werewolf | Sep 25, 2005 5:25:50 PM

I support parental notification laws, although I am moderate on abortion, believing that it should be legal in the first trimester, and illegal after the point of 'viability' of the fetus, excepting health of the mother etc.

There are a couple of points in this discussion that seem very weak to me. First off, the argument Rebecca Allen makes about molestation from a family member doesn't seem to be very relevant to parental notification. I would expect that in most such cases the family member would be pushing for the abortion as an obvious pregnancy could reveal his crime. Beyond that though, the abuse seems to me to be far worse then either and abortion or carrying the child to term. Since I believe all parental consent or notification laws have provisions for appealing to an outside authority in extreme circumstances (and this would apply) it seems to me that requiring such a thing for an abortion would help stop the far worse abuse that is occurring, rather than helping to cover it up.

As to Neil basic idea that not having an abortion is automatically, and unreservedly a negative choice that will have negative impact in the girl I wonder how he has decided that. I know several women who became pregnant as teens and choose not to have an abortion. I have never heard one of them regret that decision, although they may well regret not having other opportunities, none of them have ever said, I wish I had aborted this child. In truth, the opposite sentiment seems to apply with them being so grateful that they didn't abort the child.

Granted, these were girls who chose not to have an abortion which would have different characteristics from girls who were not allowed to have an abortion. Regardless, the basic premise that not getting an abortion is likely to be a decision that will be regretted forever seems to be lacking support to me.

In fact, it seems to relate to a pro-abortion rather than a pro-choice viewpoint (unlike some, I try to to use the terms as synonyms) where an abortion is, by default, a better choice than having a child.

Posted by: Dave Justus | Sep 26, 2005 1:48:20 PM

I have never heard one of them regret that decision, although they may well regret not having other opportunities, none of them have ever said, I wish I had aborted this child. In truth, the opposite sentiment seems to apply with them being so grateful that they didn't abort the child.

There's actually a deep philosophical issue here that I've been thinking about lately. After the child is born, the woman comes to love the child, and the thought of the child not existing is awful to her. But if she hadn't had the child, she wouldn't have come to love the child, and she would regard being without the child as a better life. Maybe she would've had a different child later in her life, and she would've loved that child instead. Then the life path where she didn't have the abortion, had the earlier child, and missed having the later child (and in addition, went through the hardships of single motherhood) would seem awful to her.

So it would seem to me that retrospective preference-satisfaction doesn't guarantee that one made the right choice. One can get retrospective preference-satisfaction after doing something that actually reduces one's well-being, provided that the action actually reshapes one's preferences.

(sorry if this is unclear, slept 1.5 hr last night in the office)

Posted by: Neil the Ethical Werewolf | Sep 26, 2005 4:05:35 PM

The tattoo analogy above is absurd. It fails to recognize the most important fact which is that there is now a new life that needs protection. It is indeed unfortunate that the underage girl made bad decisions that put her into this boat, but she did make those decisions. The life of the baby needs to be protected.

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