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August 24, 2005

Why 1972 Matters

Matt's got an interesting post on the McGovern realignment, which basically argues that the actual realignment happened four years before, when Nixon and Wallace left Humphrey with a mere 42% of the vote. That it split three ways made it look more like an anomaly and less like a phase shift. But Nixon's landslide in 1972 came from getting the Wallace voters, and we wrongly ascribed that to McGovern's Vietnam position, rather than the logical extension of 1968.

That's correct, but only to a point. As a historical point, Matt's quite right. But insofar as it affects modern elections, the South is no longer, by and large, voting against us because they don't like black folks. What we're dealing with instead is party identification, law-and-order preferences, religious issues, and an aggressive military culture. Since Democrats aren't Republicans, are considered soft on crime, questioning towards authority, hostile to Christianity, uncomfortable with the armed forces, and condescending and hostile towards Southerners, we're facing a real cultural problem. In that way, as Jim Crow became less acceptable to a more modern South, these issues subtly replaced the racist appeal of the Republican party. The South subbed out the original reasons for their realignment and simultaneously got angry at Democrats for reminding them of their embarrassing past.

In this way, McGovern matters, and his failure should be taken seriously by Democrats. Everything McGovern represented -- disorder, the 1968 convention, peaceniks, hippies, etc -- has been reanimated into the Southern stereotype of the Democratic party. In some places, like Virginia, that can be overcome with the right candidate. In other parts of the region, we've got no chance. But even if realignment wasn't originally about these issues, for a fair percentage of contemporary Southerners, it now is, and that makes the difference academic.

Update: For a really interesting essay on the South's political evolution since realignment, check out "The Real Southern Problem" (pdf), by former Alabama Democratic Congressman Glen Bowder. I don't agree with him on everything, but he makes a hell of a case for why the Democratic party is losing there, how much of it is attitudinal and related to what he calls "guy culture", and why we can't give up on it.

August 24, 2005 in History | Permalink

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Comments

Christian fundamentalism, especially homophobia, is the new racism. It's the same people.

Posted by: bobbo | Aug 24, 2005 5:02:23 PM

Race plays a bigger role in this than you seem to think. Sure, all the issue you mention are part of the mix,...bur race is still the biggest issue.

The remarks of Trent Lott a couple years ago that got him in so much hot water really tell the story. He's been saying things like that on the stump his entire political career. He got in trouble not because the Mississippi voters didn't like what he said (they agreed with him) but because he forgot at that moment he was speaking to a wider audience.

In the south they have gotten much better about concealing their feelings on race, but those issue still dominate and there is a lot of evidence to support this.

Look at what Bush did to McCain in SC in 2000, as yet another example.

Look into groups like the Council of Conservative Citizens and their relationship to GOP pols in the south (like Lott, Bob Barr, John Ashcroft, etc). It's a scandal. The Anti-Defamation League documents these conections here.

One really has to spend time in the South to absorb all this, but race is still the deciding issue and why the GOP has such a hold on the South. I could go on and on about this, but I've said enough.

Posted by: Don | Aug 24, 2005 5:06:58 PM

bobbo is right too. I think that the attraction of the Mo issue for the GOP is that they can actually talk out loud on that issue. Homophobia is still an acceptable bigotry and they are all about bigotry.

Posted by: Don | Aug 24, 2005 5:09:48 PM

You're making the same mistake that Matt did a few weeks ago. You're acting like just because our Presidential candidates tend to do poorly in the south that Democrats are screwed there. To point out Virginia as a bellwether is ludicrous.

Virginia has a Democratic Governor, two Republican Senators, and a strongly Republican state legislature. Deep red Alabama has two dominately Democratic legislative bodies (64-41 House and 25-10 Senate). Arkansas has two Dem senators, and a 72-28 and 27-8 Democratic House and Senate. Kentucky has a Democratic House. Louisiana has a Democratic Senator and two Democratic chambers. Mississippi has two Democratic chambers. North Carolina has a Democratic House, Senate, and Governor. Oklahoma has a Democratic Governor and Senate. Tennessee has a Democratic House and Governor. In West Virginia, they have 2 Senators, a Governor, and both chambers.

People aren't upset with the Democrats in the South.

Posted by: Drew Miller | Aug 24, 2005 5:28:54 PM

What Don said. Race is still an issue that should not be underestimated. Add to that a growing resentment here in the South towards Mexican immigrant families.

Posted by: sprocket | Aug 24, 2005 5:33:52 PM

State races are never as party-identified as presidential ones. In state, voters elect candidates. Nationally, they elect parties. Alabama Democrats are considered completely different than national Democrats. Look at what happened when Riley tried to push progressive tax reform...

Posted by: Ezra Klein | Aug 24, 2005 5:35:28 PM

What about Black and Latino southerners? The Latino population is growing very fast in the South. If the Democrats can get enough minority voters to go out and vote, we might do a lot better there.

Posted by: Katherine | Aug 24, 2005 5:35:32 PM

We Dems need to start thinking with our brains on the issues we emphasize. Are things like trigger lock requirements and mandatory helmet laws a good idea? Yeah, probably. Are they worth the harm that they do to the Dem agenda by alienating certain segments of the voting public? No, not even close.

Posted by: alkali | Aug 24, 2005 5:54:59 PM

The Latino population is growing very fast in the South.

That's a very good point and is also why the Bushies try so very hard to get the Latino vote using religious issues.

Posted by: Don | Aug 24, 2005 5:55:00 PM

Don, it is also a reason I'm not so sure immigration isn't going to be the big issue for the GOP in 06, even though some of the GOP might want it to be. Rove in particular doesn't want to have Bush become known like Wilson is in CA.

As far as "The South" goes, McGovern is just a symbol -- he actually was largely *right* about Vietnam in retrospect, but no one wanted to admit it at the time. But he's a symbol for "elitist" academics.

The South was lost in 1965 and LBJ knew it when he signed the bill, but it was worth it.

The trick is to demonize their hot-button interest groups like they have with us and win over the real swing constituencies of the future: suburuban voters, Latino voters, Asian-American voters. And using Pat Robertson, or Dobson, or a medley of others suits that purpose.

Posted by: Chris R | Aug 24, 2005 6:27:53 PM

Democrats can easily win in the south>. History proves that.
Liberals can't. Recent history proves that.

You guys can try to come up with all the most self-congratulatory excuses that you wish - as is your wont - or you can accept reality.

Posted by: RW | Aug 24, 2005 6:36:55 PM

Chris is totally right on that. I'd be very surprised to see Rove et al allow an immigration battle to spin out of hand. Hardening Hispanics against Republicans when their party ID's are forming is political suicide on the order of losing the South.

Which is to say, run, Tancredo, run!

Posted by: Ezra Klein | Aug 24, 2005 7:12:05 PM

There are a couple of small points - one is that Democrats can win various states in the South, given the right candidate (and I think the fact that Dems win at the state and local level matters, greatly). The second is that "the problem southerners have with Democrats" - a shorthand Republicans like to use to mis-chracterize Dems - is an ever-shifting landscape of whatever looks worst. We hate families, we want every teenage girl to have an abortion.... oh yeah, and we hate the military. Some of it is not worth responding to (abortion, usually), some is so off base that the argument is not worth having (the anti-family, anti-Christian stuff, for instance), and some need to be addressed (like the military issues). Where I think Dems have a big problem is separating the wheat from the chaff, when our inclination is to argue almost everything passionately, and give due consideration to even the most outlandish points.

The larger point is what some people have mentioned - A) McGovern was not wrong, and we ought not just run away from the issues he raised as if they're to blame. But B) more than that, the 1972 landslide was built on the dirty tricks that culminated in Watergate. If someone wrecked the electoral process, let's talk about the criminals that lied, stole and ruined the lives of several otherwise decent people.

Finally, the biggest point is Chris R's - we lost the South in 1965. And we really need to move on from that.

Posted by: weboy | Aug 24, 2005 7:17:30 PM

One thing that frustrates me is that I see the McGovern '72 campaign for the democratic nomination as perhaps the greatest campaign for a presidential nomination ever. (It puts the expensive but wrecked Dean For America cadillac to shame.) For the party itself, it was absolutely revoluntionary. I mean, McGovern was considered *radical* even by 1972 Democratic Party standards. McGovern's campaign brought tens of thousands of new volunteers and activists into positions of party leadership, and can be considered an important factor in the congressional gains of 1974 (although obviously not as important as Watergate).

The major outcome of the McGovern general election campaign was Democratic Party disunion. You have to understand that although the Dems didn't get the white house in '68 or '72, liberalism (as a philosophy of government) and the Democratic Party were dominant throughout the nation. '72, with its liberal grassroots coup-de-tat of the party's then FDRian farmer-labor-white-urban-ethnic leadership, left the party humptydumptied.

Posted by: Lake_Michigan | Aug 24, 2005 7:27:45 PM

The trick is to demonize their hot-button interest groups like they have with us and win over the real swing constituencies of the future: suburuban voters, Latino voters, Asian-American voters. And using Pat Robertson, or Dobson, or a medley of others suits that purpose.

Chris has summed it all up really well. Immigration is the Achilles heal of the GOP outreach to Latinos and we really need to hang this right-wing loons around their necks like an Albatros-- and we've really dropped the ball on this last point giving the GOP way too many free passes.

Posted by: Don | Aug 24, 2005 8:21:27 PM

Ezra - I don't know that I would say that state races aren't party-identified. I think it's more accurate that the state democratic party and the national democratic party have different public images in many states. An Alabama Democrat is not the same as a Democrat ... just as a Massachussets Republican is not the same as a Republican.

Posted by: aphrael | Aug 24, 2005 8:25:12 PM

"The major outcome of the McGovern general election campaign was Democratic Party disunion."

Ezra posted on McGovern, Vietnam, and the Democratic Party a few days ago. I have been thinking since that that were a lot of factors that went into the realignment, and McGovern and the 72 campaign are more symptoms and signs than causes. I would note, that besides directly losing pro-military Southerners, the Democratic Party generally moved in a less nationalistic direction. There are no more Scoop Jacksons in the party, or very few. But I am not willing to easily attribute that to just one cause.

Posted by: bob mcmanus | Aug 25, 2005 12:15:01 AM

1972 matters cause that's the year Bill and I moved in together!

Last Tango in Paris premiered at the New York Film Festival.

And this country found a bigger handbasket to go to hell in.

Posted by: David Ehrenstein | Aug 25, 2005 9:44:56 AM

Have to say, I thought that Browder piece was garbage. After wading through all 15 long-winded pages, the only substantive advice I could find was:

1. Blue State Dems need to stop being so elitist.

2. Dem candidates need to not just be tolerant of Southern culture, they need to be able to mimick it convincingly.

Take this:

"Venturing into the Guy-Zone. Serious Democratic presidential candidates inevitably have to venture into the Guy-zone of white southern culture—guns, God, and Old Glory; and whoever enters that zone also had better walk the walk and talk the talk reasonably well to comfort a skeptical bunch of southern hunters, preachers, and patriots."

OK, after being lectured on our cultural elitism, can he not see how hypocritical this is? Why the hell should I, Joe Democratic Candidate from, say, Connecticut, and not a particularly religous person, have to get groovy with the God Talk? Why should I have to pretend to give a shit about hunting? This is nuts. This is Southern Cultural Imperialism, and it's just as wrong as any Blue State elitism.

Noah was right: The South really is the spoiled brat of politics. If the only way we can get their votes is to pretend to be like them, then the hell with it.

Posted by: Toast | Aug 25, 2005 10:55:55 AM

the South is no longer, by and large, voting against us because they don't like black folks

This is, of course, a complete joke. Go read Maracote, who is from the South (inasmuch as Texas counts as the South). Note that Trent Lott wasn't kicked down simply for his statement, but for a history of connections to racist organizations that became widely known because of his statement. South Carolina was able to kneecap John McCain because he had a "black illegitimate daughter." South Carolina still flies a flag that is considered by many, quite properly, to be analogous to the swastika. It is pretty broadly acknowledged that Bobby Jindal lost his election in Louisiana because of the color of his skin.

But, no, you're right, the South has moved passed its issues with race.

Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Aug 25, 2005 11:48:32 AM

Which is why the qualifier is in that sentence. The South does not vote against us on race. Maybe, if you want to really stereotype them, 30% do. That still leaves 70% who aren't. That 30% would never vote for us. But there's more than enough left to win a majority. Or do you honestly believe that 50%+1 are walking to the poles, deciding who likes blacks more, and voting for the other guy?

Posted by: Ezra Klein | Aug 25, 2005 12:34:11 PM

Ezra:

Let's use your number of 30%. (Cf. Marcotte in comments ("But I won't lie--the biggest obstacle is racism.")) The standard DLC line for seeking victory in the South is that we cannot concede Southern electoral votes and still expect to win. Which transforms pretty easily into "if we concede the Southern electoral votes, then we won't win a national election." The South (here, TX, OK, MS, AL, GA, SC, NC, Va., AK, LA, FL, and TN) has about 155 electoral votes. That's 29% of total electoral votes available. Which means that the DLC (and you, as I believe you accept this argument) is saying that we cannot win an election in which we concede 29% of the votes.

It's not that I think that we can't win Southern states without making concessions to the racists (here, 30%). It's that you (and the DLC) think so.

Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Aug 25, 2005 2:51:49 PM

Tim, I can honestly say that, so far as I can tell, that makes no sense at all. The reason we can't concede Southern votes is that we also won't win Kansas, Idaho, etc. This is total apples and oranges.

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