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August 05, 2005
Kanye and Jay-Z
I know Kanye West likes Jay-Z. I know West is with his label. I know he owes Jay-Z.
But enough. He's got to stop letting him ruin his songs.
After spitting out an overview of Sierra Leone's massacres, the role diamonds have to play in them, and the conflict that creates for those who see them as an innocent status symbol, the segue to Jay-Z is the aural equivalent of smacking into a pole during your morning jog. But you quickly forget your aching head, because Jay-Z's lyrics are so unsubstantial, so meaninglessly self-aggrandizing, that you stop wondering why he fucked up the song and start wondering why Kanye let him.
How can you falter, when you're the rock of gibraltar/
Had to get out of the boat, so I could walk on water/
This ain't no tall order, this is nothing to me/
Difficult takes a day, impossible takes a week/
Jay-Z, contrary to reputation, is about the most lyrically derivative rapper we've got. The guy's allergic to profundity, terrified of substance, and addicted to autopilot lyrics extolling his manifold virtues. Which is fine, folks can buy that if they want. But after watching Jay-Z do his damndest to ruin both Kanye's "Never Again" and "Diamonds From Sierra Leone (Remix)", I think the debt's repaid. Bring Jay-Z out when the song's light, but West has got to stop trying to balance his own serious side by deploying Jay-Z to inject mediocrity in his most interesting songs. It's pretty sad commentary on the state of hip-hop that West even feels the need in the first place.
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Comments
You're just fishing for compliments from Nas.
Posted by: Ted Barlow | Aug 5, 2005 6:07:46 PM
For whatever it's worth, I think the Jay-Z/Kanye dynamic on "Never Let Me Down" works pretty well. Though I suppose it's not as substantive a song as the two that you mentioned.
Anyway, who out there is claiming that Jay-Z is particularly original? And I think his lyrics somewhat less derivative than other mainstream megastar rappers, e.g. Ja Rule, Nelly, Ludacris. I also think lyrics on some of his songs that weren't released as singles -- "Lucifer", "My 1st Song" -- are a litte more original than a lot of his stuff that gets radio play.
Posted by: Nick Beaudrot | Aug 5, 2005 6:35:03 PM
I'm about as far from being a hip-hop authority as it's possible to imagine, but I would just guess that, without Jay-Z, The Game, et al, around, a lot of rap fans might think Kanye was a little soft.
Posted by: kth | Aug 5, 2005 8:11:01 PM
Ezra, I agree completely. Save Jay-Z for the boastful stuff ... he could have trotted him out on the last album's "Workout Plan." I heard this song on the radio today and was glad to hear West turn what I thought was going to be a huge, iced-out sophomore slump of a song into a great, great first verse. Plus, the "Diamonds Are Forever" sample is great – though I think "School Spirit" has to take the originality cake.
I think the best thing to happen to Jay-Z's originality was "The Gray Album." And I hope Kanye stays as hungry as he sounded on that first album. I'd much rather have another young Chuck D, De La Soul, Tribe Called Quest or Mos Def than another 50 Cent or Eminem, even considering "Mosh."
Posted by: Joseph | Aug 5, 2005 9:23:09 PM
I've posted this message before but Jay-Z's "Reasonable Doubt" album is fantastic. The rest of his work: ahhhh.
I agree with Ezra. I'll double Ezra's claim and state that Jay-Z, despite his earlier promises, is possibly the most overrated rapper ever. And, perhaps one of the most overrated musicians, ever. Sure, the songs are sometimes catchy, but that doesn't mean good and, well, Jay-Z is all about hype.
On the same note, I'd say the same about 50. Although, 50 is much better at what he does than Jay-Z. 50's club music, radio spins, are good for what they are.
Eminem, on the other hand, is one of the most talented mainstream rappers. His quality of music has declined but I believe that is more due to boredom than lack of talent or ability. When Em has something to say, and usually even when he doesn't, he flexes his noodle and whips you with it. Plus he's a damn good producer.
...D-12, though, sighhhhhhh.
Posted by: Steve C | Aug 6, 2005 12:46:17 AM
Halfway on topic, I guess: the best hip-hop I've listened to lately has been African, especially Senegalese. (MC Solaar was Senegalese, and they have a long hip-hop tradition, by hip-hop standards.) If you get the chance, check out these groups and solo artists:
Daara J
Gokh-Bi System
Pee Froiss
Alif
X-Plastaz (Tanzanian)
Tata Pound (Malian)
Reggie Rockstone (Ghanaian)
Zola (South African)
Posted by: antid_oto | Aug 6, 2005 1:03:14 AM
First of all, anything having to do with Jay Z is boring and unworthy of discussion (unless he were to give up sexual details on his gf Beyonce). Secondly, I'm wondering how old you are. You look like you're 15. What do you do for a living anyway, don't you have better things to do than spend your life blogging away? I know I do.
Posted by: Justin | Aug 6, 2005 1:15:26 AM
That's kinda mystifying, although you may be right about the songs in question. Jay Z is one of the most skilled lyricists out there - it is just that his subject is always his own arrogance. Sometimes on Jay's own stuff this is thrilling (vol 3 is my favourite) and on others its dull or worse. When he's on, however, he makes being Jay Z seem as vivid and and absorbing experience as no doubt Jay thinks we think it is. And when he actually reaches outside, such as on the Get Out of Iraq in "Beware of the Boys", you know it is because it matters a lot.
His contributions worked fine on the last kanye album, because Kanye has substance enough for everyone, but he lacks a sure enough instrument to do it all on his own - Jay's cadence brought a key track like "Never Let Me Down" home. Kanye is great partly because he knows his own weaknesses, and almost no other rapper is capable of admitting them (and turning them into art).
Posted by: plebian | Aug 6, 2005 4:58:10 AM
You've got a point, I think--Jay drops some really interesting lyrics on 'The Black Album,' but everything he's done with Kanye has just been ghastly. Listening to 'Never Let Me Down' the other day, I realized that something about it bothered me, but I couldn't figure out what. The problem was that Kanye's and J. Ivy's lyrics (I especially like 'Yeah, I need my loot by rent day / but that ain't what gives me the heart of Kunta Kinte') have some actual heft to them, while Jay's... well, Sean, we know you've had like four #1 albums, and that's great, but is there anything else? No?
Posted by: drseudo | Aug 7, 2005 10:44:06 PM
My name is Kevin Mejia, I am an honor student with a perfect grade point average. I have something to say. First of all Ezra, how dare you say that Jay-Z is a derivative rapper? You did not even give a single example why? Second of all, I think it is very ignorant of you to say that Jay-Z's lyrics are meaningless. In my opinion, it would be very foolish of you to criticize his lyrics since from my point of view, you are brainless. You must be a very ill-educated person, or just a person that doesn't know about Jay-Z. Next time you mention Jay-Z's name, make sure that you don't embarrass yourself in your website because you are trying to promote some antics. From your writing, I can tell that you don't know a thing about Jay and that you are a simple minded person. Have a nice day! (you laughable loser)
Posted by: Kevin Mejia | Aug 21, 2005 11:49:58 AM
Anyone who could rap over 99 Problems has mad skillz. I enjoyed his contribution to Diamonds, actually.
Posted by: The contrarian | Aug 22, 2005 12:46:46 PM
Dude your stupid....plain and simple......"Mothafuckas say that im foolish say i only talk about jewels...do you fools listen to music or do you just skim thru it"--jay z
Nuff said
Posted by: B | Aug 22, 2005 8:24:33 PM
I really agree with drseudo jay-z has brought a lot to the table and to say that his lyrics are meaningless is just plain crazy i respect jay-z because he made songs such as "this can't be life" feat scarface, or or even "feeling it" from his first album Reasonable Doubt, in my personal opinion jay-z is arguably the greatest rapper alive. With a list long of deep, meaningful songs such as, "Allure" from the black album, "I'd do anything", and "song cry" from the Blueprint album, in all reality jay-z is versatile.
Posted by: rulez | Sep 11, 2005 2:03:08 PM
Ezra I feel u are the most retarded person in the world for even mentioning the word "derivative" when referring to Jay-Z. clearly u don't know shit about hip-hop and u are probably one of those people who just watch MTV and VH1 and think that's music. Without Jay-Z, I won't even listen to Diamonds, and J. Ivy had the weakest flow on the song Never Let You Down. Jay-Z was so good in that song, i almost cried in disbelief (wonder why he got 2 verses??). What u need is a re-education in hip-hop. Go and buy every Jay-Z album - from REASONABLE DOUBT to BLACK ALBUM, and just listen with ur mouth shut. Take notes if u so wish, so that when such misguided and daft thoughts ever come to ur head, u can always read ur notes and correct urself. While u are at it, listen to THE MISEDUCATION OF LAURYN HILL and DE LA SOUL IS DEAD. Maybe u'll get an insight into what hip-hop really is. IF U AIN'T GOT NOTHING SMART TO SAY, THEN DON'T SAY NOTHING!!!
Posted by: Louis the XIV | Oct 10, 2005 4:04:27 PM
Haha
FUCK
EZRA
JAY-Z
RULES
BITCH
Posted by: The real Kevin Mejia | Feb 13, 2006 6:57:09 PM
Read this one again. ttttsssss..... unknown
------------------------------------------------------
Posted by: Louis the XIV
Ezra I feel u are the most retarded person in the world for even mentioning the word "derivative" when referring to Jay-Z. clearly u don't know shit about hip-hop and u are probably one of those people who just watch MTV and VH1 and think that's music. Without Jay-Z, I won't even listen to Diamonds, and J. Ivy had the weakest flow on the song Never Let You Down. Jay-Z was so good in that song, i almost cried in disbelief (wonder why he got 2 verses??). What u need is a re-education in hip-hop. Go and buy every Jay-Z album - from REASONABLE DOUBT to BLACK ALBUM, and just listen with ur mouth shut. Take notes if u so wish, so that when such misguided and daft thoughts ever come to ur head, u can always read ur notes and correct urself. While u are at it, listen to THE MISEDUCATION OF LAURYN HILL and DE LA SOUL IS DEAD. Maybe u'll get an insight into what hip-hop really is. IF U AIN'T GOT NOTHING SMART TO SAY, THEN DON'T SAY NOTHING!!!
Posted by: Louis the XIV | Oct 10, 2005 1:04:27 PM
Posted by: tim | Feb 21, 2006 1:33:43 PM
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Posted by: Royalty Free Beats For One Dollar | Sep 15, 2006 1:34:48 PM
you must be a fucking nut to say some shit like that. i will agree with you that jay's verse on that sierra leone wasnt his best. regardless, kanye is nothing compared to jay-z. remember once and for all, jay-z is the greatest rapper to live. please re-evaluate your opinion about him right now after you listen to
http://www.sandboxautomatic.com/abstract/cornerstone67.html
Posted by: g3n3 | Sep 19, 2006 7:19:42 PM
I stopped reading when you said Jay-Z could ruin a Kanye song, to even compare Kanye to Jay-Z just shows how little you know about rap. Don't think Jay-Z has substance? Go and listen to "Meet the Parents". I could see if you gave examples as to why he has no lyrical skill, but you didn't, the lyric you posted from Diamonds Remix are probably the best in the song.
Posted by: Kiron | Mar 29, 2007 4:47:32 AM
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Posted by: Papayge | Jun 27, 2007 10:14:31 PM
If anything this verse made the remix stronger. Jay is doing what he always does:talk about himself and his crew while addressing critics. U may have put some of the best bars in the song on ur page besides "Inot a buisnessman,Im a business, man. Get on yo lyrics 4real.Jay-Hov all day. He posed 2 be #1 on everybody list.
Posted by: flowsjustrunthrume | Jul 14, 2007 7:25:44 AM
Im so glad i found this page, i am currently having a long-running debate with my housemate about this very subject - him being a jay-z fan and me not!
Ive only actually been into hip-hop for a few years and funilly enough it was actually my housemate that got me into it. Im a real music enthusiast and have always admired the genre from afar but never had a vested interest until recently. My housemate advised me to listen to jay z and i have to say I was sorely disapppointed by weak trakcs such as H to the Izzo and girls,girls,girls, put off by the boring, self-indulgent lyrics and rubbish sample/beat....and for the record i was not impressed by the tacky 'hard knock life' as well - from my limited knowledge of hip-hop the track seems encapsulate a complete contradiction of what the hip-hop culture should be about, a culture that he believes he is part of but is clearly not.
Having listened to the black album recently my opinion is now slightly improved - i believe lucifer and dirt off your shoulder to be his only 2 good tracks that i've heard - personal opinion of course, but bear in mind they're produced by arguably the 2 best producers of that genre though!
I couldnt believe the check of it when i heard about the jayz and nas beef...jay z doesnt even deserve to be talked about in the same breath, lyrically, indeed musically, hes a million miles away...whilst the natural flair oozes from nas, everything with jay z sounds slightly forced and wooden. Ok, nas did sell out as well after illamtic, but at least to a ceratin degree hes kept his head down and just made music, his passion.
But its not about the lyrics with jayz; its the look, the image, the bling, the attitude, his arrogance - thats what people are attracted to. Complete sell-out commercia c**t, i can't believe people are so stupid to fall for it all.
Come anyone clear up this thing about him selling crack to fund his career? sounds liek a load of bolloks!
Posted by: Dan Winterburn | Aug 17, 2007 7:39:35 AM
"But its not about the lyrics with jayz; its the look, the image, the bling, the attitude, his arrogance - thats what people are attracted to. Complete sell-out commercia c**t, i can't believe people are so stupid to fall for it all."
That's exactly it!
All these kids nowadays that want to claim Jay-Z as the greatest ever don't know d*ck about hip-hop. They are too young and too stupid to see past the current glitz and flash. Jay-Z benefitted from being the most visible (by steady putting out albums) of those remaining from the mid 90s Rap/Hip Hop boom fronted by Big and Pac. Jay-Z doesn't claim to be the heir of that era, but the bearer of its torch-the original MC, so to speak. But that is bull! Jay-Z couldn't run with Pac and Big when they were around, so how can he claim to be representative of and an improvement on what they were? Does he have Big's lyrical ability? Hell no. Does he have Pac's charisma? Again, hell no. He's just the lead hack of all the other hacks that have come to define hip-hop after the death of those worthy legends. They are all making money off of the popularity and interest generated from Big and Pac. The most absurd stat I've seen is that Jay-Z is tied for the 2nd most #1 albums with Elvis. Right behind the Beatles. Are you serious? Jay Z? This world's gone deep south towards hell.
All you young wannabes need to actually LISTEN to music instead of attaching merit (as best mc) to who dude's dating, how much he pays for his Manhattan apartment, the car he drives and the properties he owns. I give credit to dude where it's due. He's got an easy, smooth flow (but so does Cam'Ron), and is often witty (if not as clever as he thinks he is) But when it comes to a list of G.O.A.Ts. Jay-Z figures low in a critical cat's top 5 (in no particular order):
Pac,Big,Eminem,Mos Def,Nas.
Posted by: Mark | Nov 18, 2007 3:37:51 AM
