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June 19, 2005

Things happen in Gitmo

The first time I saw the "What Happens in Gitmo Stays in Gitmo" T-shirts, I thought some liberal group was selling them to call attention to prisoner abuse and to the government's ability to control the news flow out of Guantanamo. Furthermore, anything that makes people more aware of the existence of Guantanamo hurts Bush more than it helps him. As it turns out, the shirts are being sold by Rush Limbaugh. Don't buy them, I guess, because Rush will get your money and he'll just blow it on drugs. But be happy that Republicans will advertise our position by wearing them. And what's with putting in that apostrophe to make it "G'itmo", anyway?

--Neil the Ethical Werewolf

June 19, 2005 in Terrorism | Permalink

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» What happens at Gitmo.... from Pandagon
I thought the I *Heart* Gitmo shirts reached a new low in conservative "humor", and they did, but as any wingnut watcher can attest, just as you hit one new low, someone else will find another. Leave it to Rush... [Read More]

Tracked on Jun 20, 2005 7:34:54 PM

Comments

The right believes the more attention brought to gitmo, the better. The left is throwing out all these allegations of torture, yet won't even visit before hurling unfounded allegations. The right wants as much attention on gitmo as possible. Please, investigate gitmo, at least investigate before accusing our troops of torture.

Those are some quality shirts. On the front of all of them it says 'Club G'itmo'. There are different things on the back of each one. 'I Got My Free Koran and Prayer Rug at G'itmo', 'What Happens in G'itmo Stays in G'itmo', 'My Mullah went to Club G'itmo and All I Got Was This Lousy T-Shirt', and my personal favorite 'Your Tropical Retreat from the Stress of Jihad'.

Pretty funny stuff. Rush Limbaugh, evil genius!

Posted by: Captain Toke | Jun 19, 2005 2:52:44 PM

If the right was afraid of what would be found in an investigation of gitmo, they sure as hell wouldn't bring attention to gitmo.

I think gitmo is going to become an issue for the right. The more people are educated about gitmo the more they will realize the necessity of a place like gitmo. Gitmo is not a torture prison and any high ranking US official can visit at a moments notice. Main stream Americans don't have the sympathy for terrorists that the left has, and they don't think turning up the AC, turning off the AC is torture, especially when our troops are fighting in a desert. As far as the terrorist wallowing in his own filth, he was a 9/11 conspirator and this incident occurred right after 9/11. Right after 9/11, most Americans could care less if an Islamic terrorist shit himself and had to sit in it.

Posted by: Captain Toke | Jun 19, 2005 3:40:34 PM

This is torture.

Posted by: Captain Toke | Jun 19, 2005 3:50:24 PM

Captain Toke why don't you just go post on LGF with the other douchebags? Your contributions here are the blog equivalents of kindergarten finger paintings. You should be a charter member of the "Still better than Stalin!" brigade.

Posted by: Col Bat Guano | Jun 19, 2005 4:02:37 PM

Why are we torturing human beings at Gitmo?

Posted by: Craig | Jun 19, 2005 4:05:37 PM

Where is your proof of torture Craig? Be specific and provide a link otherwise it is not evidence.

Posted by: Captain Toke | Jun 19, 2005 4:13:26 PM

Col Bat guano: While I don't agree with the Cap'n, he's got every right to express his views here. While I don't conclude the way he does, I can agree with some of his supporting argument. Comment boards that serve as echo chambers are of little value.

The nation at large does not, as the cap'n says, give two shits about torturing suspected Al Qaida operatives. Maybe they should. You can argue its ethically abhorrent. You can argue it's ineffective and even counterproductive. But I tend to agree with the Cap'n that, politically, it's a loser.

There are far better ways to take Bush and his wing of Republicans down then trying to whip up a frenzy over some urine-soaked Qurans.

Posted by: QuietStorm | Jun 19, 2005 6:55:27 PM

Just to be clear, QuietStorm, Toke does not have every right to express his views here. This is Ezra's blog, and if Ezra chose to delete all of Toke's comments, perhaps after mailing them to the email address linked under Toke's signature, that'd be perfectly reasonable. Ezra probably doesn't want to do that, since there's something to be said for having a blog where comments don't get deleted.

The thing that really bugs me about Toke is his penchant for making irrelevant claims so as to shift the topic of discussion. Then he uses a bunch of fiery rhetoric so that lots of commenters forget about subtle points being made earlier in the thread, or in the original post, and feel compelled to flame back at his comment. Look at what he did here for an example. His presence decreases our ability to have intelligent discussions of subtle things. Compare him to Dave Justus in that thread, who makes good on-topic arguments, and keeps reasonable discussion alive even despite the Toke presence.

Posted by: Neil the Ethical Werewolf | Jun 19, 2005 8:31:38 PM

Neil:

I'm not a regular here and have not read Toke's posts before. I'm certainly not going to defend him without exception. On this thread, however, you posited that mention of Gitmo works against Bush and Toke took the other side. I happen to think he's correct in his analysis of the way the issue plays politically but that's arguable. Either way, his claims are certainly relevant and concisely summarize a widely held viewpoint.

How, on the other hand, does a remark like:

Captain Toke why don't you just go post on LGF with the other douchebags?

contribute to the thread in any way?

Posted by: QuietStorm | Jun 19, 2005 10:25:55 PM

Yeah, I do think Toke's above comment was mostly OK. This bit about the left's sympathy for terrorists, though, has no place in reasoned discussion.

Posted by: Neil the Ethical Werewolf | Jun 19, 2005 10:52:37 PM

"How, on the other hand, does a remark like:

Captain Toke why don't you just go post on LGF with the other douchebags?

contribute to the thread in any way? "

Well, if I, another non-regular commenter here (but regular 'lurker'), may answer: it reminds us all that Toke is a douchebag, and that many similarly douchey types can be found on LGF.

Posted by: Dadahead | Jun 20, 2005 12:09:34 AM

Caption Toke writes:

"Where is your proof of torture Craig? Be specific and provide a link otherwise it is not evidence."

Well, CT, let's see you spend 48 hours hog-tied on the floor of a freezing cold cell covered with your own shit and piss, as noted in Senator Durbin's floor statement, and then tell us that's not torture.

Posted by: Dave Trowbridge | Jun 20, 2005 1:12:10 PM

Quietstorm,
I'm sorry if my comment seemed out of bounds to you, but Captain Toke has become a regular thread derailer here with various comments that drive the discussion off into the wilderness. Rather than address the large number of accusations that detainees are being abused at Gitmo and other detention facilities around the world he wanders off into whether the temperature in Cuba is hot enough to call it "torture". These abuses are being conducted in our name and the world is taking note. Rather than address that he wants to demonize Sen. Durbin for talking about it.

Posted by: Col Bat Guano | Jun 20, 2005 2:00:23 PM

Guano,

To be fair- noone has to let a thread be derailed. I know I'm just a sucker in that regard.

Posted by: TJ | Jun 20, 2005 4:08:59 PM

Guano: As I read it, the post was not about the merits, if there can be said to be any, of the torture at Gitmo but about its political fallout. Toke's comments were on point in that respect. I've since been made aware of previous ill-tempered remarks from him/her but was not aware of them at the time.

Posted by: QuietStorm | Jun 20, 2005 4:33:02 PM

QuietStorm,
My initial response to Captain Toke here involved his endorsement of the Limbaugh/Gitmo t-shirts which just didn't seem to add anything to the discussion. I had a similar exchange with him on a previous thread and failed to use good judgement before responding to this one. As TJ said above, no one has to let a thread be derailed and I will try and do better.
In that regard, CT's original post said that Gitmo would be a political plus for republicans. Is there anything this administration could do that would get supporters like him outraged? If we indiscriminately bombed villages in Pakistan because of intel that OBL might be there would that still be okay because the sheeple think any means necessary to defend the U.S are justified? This sort of blind worship reminds me of another country not too long ago.....

Posted by: Col Bat Guano | Jun 20, 2005 4:53:27 PM

CBG: I'll take your word that CT approves of what's been going on in Guantanamo but one could legitimately see the issue as favorable for Republicans without approving of the torture itself. I think you're equating one's analysis of the politics of torture with one's views of the torture itself and I don't think that's correct. Both as an example and to clarify my own position, I'll state that what has been done down there is wrong beyond a shadow of a doubt but it is not an issue that will hurt Bush politically.

Posted by: QuietStorm | Jun 20, 2005 5:07:10 PM

QuietStorm,
But should there be such a thing as "the politics of torture"? Shouldn't any decent human being say "No, torture is wrong!"? The idea that someone could tell themself that maybe it wasn't right to hogtie an individual to the floor for days on end, but hey we'll pick up three more seats in the house is morally corrupt.

Posted by: Col Bat Guano | Jun 20, 2005 5:25:47 PM

CBG: I agree with you but we can only live in the world that is, not the one we wish to see. In this world Gitmo isn't going to hurt Bush.

Posted by: QuietStorm | Jun 20, 2005 5:52:59 PM

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Posted by: peter.w | Sep 16, 2007 9:50:09 PM

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