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May 20, 2005

America, America, God Shed His Grace on Thee

Ladies and Gentlemen, your United States of America:

Even as the young Afghan man was dying before them, his American jailers continued to torment him.

The prisoner, a slight, 22-year-old taxi driver known only as Dilawar, was hauled from his cell at the detention center in Bagram, Afghanistan, at around 2 a.m. to answer questions about a rocket attack on an American base. When he arrived in the interrogation room, an interpreter who was present said, his legs were bouncing uncontrollably in the plastic chair and his hands were numb. He had been chained by the wrists to the top of his cell for much of the previous four days.

Your land of the free:

Mr. Dilawar asked for a drink of water, and one of the two interrogators, Specialist Joshua R. Claus, 21, picked up a large plastic bottle. But first he punched a hole in the bottom, the interpreter said, so as the prisoner fumbled weakly with the cap, the water poured out over his orange prison scrubs. The soldier then grabbed the bottle back and began squirting the water forcefully into Mr. Dilawar's face.

"Come on, drink!" the interpreter said Specialist Claus had shouted, as the prisoner gagged on the spray. "Drink!"

Your home of the brave:

At the interrogators' behest, a guard tried to force the young man to his knees. But his legs, which had been pummeled by guards for several days, could no longer bend. An interrogator told Mr. Dilawar that he could see a doctor after they finished with him. When he was finally sent back to his cell, though, the guards were instructed only to chain the prisoner back to the ceiling.

"Leave him up," one of the guards quoted Specialist Claus as saying.

Your beacon of hope:

Several hours passed before an emergency room doctor finally saw Mr. Dilawar. By then he was dead, his body beginning to stiffen. It would be many months before Army investigators learned a final horrific detail: Most of the interrogators had believed Mr. Dilawar was an innocent man who simply drove his taxi past the American base at the wrong time.

Somebody fire a Newsweek editor. This, by the way, is only the beginning of the horrors detailed in an NY Times article today. If you can take it, read the whole thing. If you can't, just read Digby.

May 20, 2005 in Terrorism | Permalink

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Comments

Your outrage is understanable. I am outraged. These people should be investigated to verify if it is true and if so, vigorously prosecuted for this crime.

That being said, it seems that you wish to paint the whole nation with a broad brush with "Ladies and Gentlemen, your United States of America, etc.
It isn't fair, is isn't right and it's the same ol' "blame America first" attitude.

Posted by: Robert Zimmerman | May 20, 2005 12:44:14 PM

Yup, I blame America first. This is our fucking fault and I blame us. Who, exactly, do you blame, Bob? When we send troops overseas, they are under our flag and thus represent our country. When they invade, it is not troops invading, but America invading. When they torture, it is not individuals torturing, but Americans. I blame America here because this is our fucking fault and it's happening under our fucking flag.

Posted by: Ezra | May 20, 2005 12:49:48 PM

I think it's also fair to point out that before last November we could have said with some justice that the people who presided over this were not legitimately elected and therefore, did not really represent America. Now, there is no excuse. And everybody in the world who might have withheld judgement about whether the American people endorsed these actions now knows that a majority do. We had a chance to disavow this in the most obvious (and democratic) way possible. We, as a nation, failed.

As blogger Brew wrote "we're all wearing the blue dress now."

Posted by: digby | May 20, 2005 1:30:05 PM

we're all wearing the blue dress now

Ick.

Posted by: Ugh | May 20, 2005 1:35:38 PM

Support our troops, and pass the Doritos! This country is a joke. A very unfunny, pickles bush-like joke.

Posted by: Pechorin | May 20, 2005 1:46:22 PM

"were not legitimately elected and therefore, did not really represent America. Now, there is no excuse."

Umm, Digby?

Posted by: bob mcmanus | May 20, 2005 1:52:54 PM

watched Breaker Morant a few weeks ago. Very hard to understand what uniquely challenging circumstances could be described in US invasions last couple of years to justify such barbarism. You would think with all the tactical and strategic andvantages that we have, our military would be relatively civilized and have better than average morale. What the hell?

Posted by: Neil Paul | May 20, 2005 1:59:49 PM

I blame America here because this is our fucking fault and it's happening under our fucking flag.

You wouldn't have liked what went on during WW I, WW II or Korea then, either. However, no one seems to paint the whole country with the same broad brush for the actions of a few as you have for this incident. Most all Americans, including Democrats, believe that the Afghan invasion was legitimate and necessary.

The legitimate action, as it was in the Abu Ghraib scandals, is to find out who authorized this, carried it out, and then prosecute them to deter others.

Posted by: Robert Zimmerman | May 20, 2005 2:48:15 PM

I agree with Ezra. This is all being done in our name, under our flag, and with our less-than-infinite resources. But I feel helpless. What, on a practical level, can everyday citizens do NOW to make this nightmare stop?

Posted by: Roxanne | May 20, 2005 2:59:47 PM

Robert Zimmerman says: The legitimate action, as it was in the Abu Ghraib scandals, is to find out who authorized this, carried it out, and then prosecute them to deter others.

You must think the Abu Ghraib investigation uncovered the perpetrators of torture. The facts suggest otherwise.

Short of a truly independent investigation, we will not target the real villains in this - guys like Rumsfeld, Bush, and Gonzales. You must think this is just the actions of a few 'bad guys' at low levels. You are right that their are bad guys, but they are at the pinnacle of the US government.

No group has the right to carry out flag into foreign (or domestic) events and claim to represent the American people when they commit these atrocities.

When are you going to stop enabling the enablers and authorizers - whether they do it with a wink and a nod or do it with formal orders.

Treaties have equal weight with the Constitution (under the Constitution). We have violated international law as defined by the treaties we have formally entered into. This torture and abuse is unconstitutional and those responsible at the top of the government should be impeached and removed from office.

Posted by: JimPortlandOR | May 20, 2005 3:11:39 PM

I cried for 45 minutes after I read that. I am more angry now than I've ever been. I blame america first too. It's not a few bad apples--it's the product of several american cultures that tacitly condone this kind of thing. Why are 21 year olds in charge of this kind of thing? How did they become sadists like that? There are a gazillion answers, but just because the blame can be spread fairly widely doesn't mean that we shouldn't blame America. because it's all part of america. And it's beyond shameful. Those who don't want to claim it as their own need to stop defending it.

Posted by: CattyinAustin | May 20, 2005 3:16:06 PM

Bob:

You wouldn't have liked what went on during WW I, WW II or Korea then, either.

A major reason why we had an easier time than the Soviets in defeating the Germans during WWII was because we were known to be HUMANE towards P.O.W.s. Whereas the Germans fought the Soviets to the death lest they face their gulags, they were more willing to surrender to the U.S. troops because of the humane treatment.

Of course, the Americans weren't as humane towards the Japanese during the war, but I'll bet you any amount of money that during the nation-building stage we did none of the things we are now doing in Afghanistan listed in todays article.

Posted by: ItAintEazy | May 20, 2005 3:18:54 PM

When are you going to stop enabling the enablers and authorizers - whether they do it with a wink and a nod or do it with formal orders

I'm sorry. Suspicion is simply not enough. It's the standard that we have all agreed upon. If you have some evidence (remember evidence?), then let's prosecute them as well.

Posted by: Robert Zimmerman | May 20, 2005 3:25:12 PM

Zimmerman: I'm sorry. Suspicion is simply not enough. It's the standard that we have all agreed upon. If you have some evidence (remember evidence?), then let's prosecute them as well.

Selective amnesia?

How about the DOJ and DOD memos on non-applicability of the Geneva Conventions? And high level task forces in DC to find a way around the Torture Conventions and US Law? And Rumsfeld statements in public? And Gonzales as lawyer to Bush in the WH arguing that terrorists don't count? And the transfer of the General at Gitmo to give advice on torture to Iraq forces?

We don't know the half of what went on because BushCo has hidden what they can. But the half we know makes it clear that Bush and Rumsfeld failed to uphold their oaths to protect and defend the Constitution (and the treaties that are co-equal therewith).

Get real, troll. The blinders on your eyes don't fool anyone. You are type that are really responsible by saying that 'nothing happened here' in regard to responsibility of those in commmand.

Posted by: JimPortlandOR | May 20, 2005 3:42:10 PM

Well, Jimbo,

Personal attacks aside, there is no doubt that if the evidence was there, someone would go after Bush, Rumsfeld or any other high official in court. No matter how much you hate or wish it to be so, it just doesn't seem to be there. If it were, and he were found guilty, I would be standing along side you.

Apparently, "troll" is anyone that is not on board with "LYNCH BUSH".


Posted by: Robert Zimmerman | May 20, 2005 4:13:56 PM

Oh, so Zimmerman thinks Gonzales would prosecute Bush if he had evidence? Gonzales created and has hidden the evidence. He was made AG to protect Bush from any legal danger.

Exactly how many investigations have looked for Executive responsibility for Iraq involvement? ZERO!
Who prevented such investigations? BushCo.

Posted by: JimPortlandOR | May 20, 2005 4:41:51 PM

Say, did you get tired of the Pandagon's articles about Amanda and her pussy? Smoking in bars? Recording artists or her cat? All of those interesting and important issues? You fit right in.

Posted by: Robert Zimmerman | May 20, 2005 12:47 PM

No, your misogynistic posts are why you're called a troll, birdbrain.

I've got that nad you wanted grown, give me a shipping address and you can receive it next week.

Posted by: The Dark Avenger | May 20, 2005 5:19:51 PM

Catty: you've hit the nail on the head precisely. Given what we understand about the psychology of young males, why were 21-year-old soldiers not supervised and not given clear direction on where the lines-that-could-not-be-crossed lay?

Where were the adults who should have been able to prevent this?

Posted by: aphrael | May 20, 2005 5:32:41 PM

Man, Zimmerman's really bitter about having been thrown off of Pandagon. I guess I would be bitter too, if were I were so insecure in my importance that I needed to scrawl my leader's talking points on other people's private property to prove my manhood, and *then* was denied even that small measure of reassurance.

I used to just loathe RTPTrolls. Now I mostly feel bad for them.

Posted by: paperwight | May 20, 2005 7:16:54 PM

No, your misogynistic posts...

What a sweet deal for the feminists. If you disagree with them in any way, you are labeled and dismissed by their minions. How open for discussion it apparently isn't.
I guess they can say just about anything they wish unchallenged. They have you.

Posted by: Robert Zimmerman | May 21, 2005 1:39:17 PM

Bob,

It isn't that you disagree that suggests chauvinism. It's how you disagree that does it. The ugliness with which you dismiss women's issues lends support to the notion that you're a misogynist.

Posted by: TJ | May 21, 2005 2:10:19 PM

Just imagine how your judgment and subsequent labeling has hurt me....

Posted by: Robert Zimmerman | May 21, 2005 9:40:47 PM

Well, you seemed to be curious as to how people coukd consider you a misogynist. Thought you might like to know why.

Posted by: TJ | May 21, 2005 10:15:15 PM

Yeah, I could attack you personally and then try to justify it as well. It is the most common of devices but, in the end, it gets you nowhere.

Posted by: Robert Zimmerman | May 22, 2005 8:23:15 AM

Say, did you get tired of the Pandagon's articles about Amanda and her pussy?

But this isn't a personal attack, because you didn't post it at pandagon.net. Right?

Posted by: The Dark Avenger | May 22, 2005 5:36:10 PM

I did not attack the person I was speaking to. I criticized the value of the posts of Miss Amanda. Perhaps that went over your head. Here is the full post from which you conveniently pulled out of context for your parsing pleasure:

Say, did you get tired of the Pandagon's articles about Amanda and her pussy? Smoking in bars? Recording artists or her cat? All of those interesting and important issues?

Posted by: Robert Zimmerman | May 23, 2005 7:57:07 AM

Here is the full post from which you conveniently pulled out of context for your parsing pleasure:

I quoted the whole thing above in this thread, birdbrain, but you apparently didn't see it:

You fit right in. You left that part out, I didn't.

Posted by: Robert Zimmerman | May 20, 2005 12:47 PM

No, your misogynistic posts are why you're called a troll, birdbrain.

I've got that nad you wanted grown, give me a shipping address and you can receive it next week.

Posted by: The Dark Avenger | May 20, 2005

Posted by: The Dark Avenger | May 23, 2005 2:27:05 PM

birdbrain

You're done

Posted by: Robert Zimmerman | May 23, 2005 3:52:06 PM

I've got that nad you wanted grown, give me a shipping address and you can receive it next week.


On second thought, I know that Amanda already has all she needs, but Jesse could probably use it.

Jesse Taylor
5532 Sierra Ridge Dr.
Columbus, OH 43231

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镀锌托盘
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托盘
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波纹板托盘
镀锌托盘
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上海托盘
北京托盘
广州托盘


托盘
钢托盘
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Posted by: peter.w | Sep 15, 2007 12:15:19 PM

Tattoos
Tattoo

Angel Tattoos
Bullseye Tattoo
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Bermuda Cruise

Posted by: Peter | Sep 20, 2007 1:42:30 PM

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